Sox lineup, Major's Best???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    The Sox had 875 the Yankees were just 8 runs behind at 867 without Arod for almost the entire season. Not to mention the Yankees had some of the lousiest numbers from the DH position in all of the AL. A healthy Arod would improve those numbers for sure.

    OK, if we grant that ARod will be healthy, then grant us Youk, CC, anr RF'ers as well. That would put us over 900 for sure.

    Deal?

    Jete's older.
    ARod's older.
    Swish is older.
    Martin's older.
    Jones is older.
    Mo is older than old. The oldest.
    and on and on...
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    2011 to 2012 projected:

                   2011                                        2012 Pojected

    1) .903 Ells (689)/Others (97)     =   Ellsbury (720)/Others (70)

    2) .827 Ped (576)/Others (191)   < Pedey (710)/ (65)

    3) .916 Gon (664)/Others (84)      < AGon  (680)/ (70)

    4) .861 Youk (468)/Ped(101)/       < Youk (600)/ (140)
                   Papi (91)/ Others(59)

    5) .885  Papi (472)/Others (241)   < Papi (600)/ (120)

    6) .695  Craw (186)/Lowrie (134)  <Craw vs RHP(450)/Ross vs LHP(250)
                   Drew (124)/Others (185)

    7) .778  Craw (141)/Salty (105)      <Salty vs R(500)/Shopp vs L(190)
                   Lowrie (94)/Others (341)

    8) .629  Salty (128)/VTek (117)       = Sween vs R (450)/Craw v L (210)
                   Craw (113)/Others (300)

    9) .757 Scut (195)/Salty (112)         > Aviles (450)/Iggy (150)/Punto (50)
                  VTek (86)/Others (190)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : The Sox had 875 the Yankees were just 8 runs behind at 867 without Arod for almost the entire season. Not to mention the Yankees had some of the lousiest numbers from the DH position in all of the AL. A healthy Arod would improve those numbers for sure. The Rangers at 855, Detroit was also within 90 of Boston at 787. 
    Posted by ThatWasMe[/QUOTE]

    Suffice to say that the Yanks, Sox & Rangers will all be formidable. Add to that the Angels w Puljos and the Tigers w Fielder. Not sure I'd want to pitch against any of them...Who has the best lineup is open to debate and can't be answered today given the numerous variable (injuries & under perfromace).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    The line up is good, not great. The sox will always score runs. Even back in the sixties when they would come in last place they would lead the league in hitting. They could never pitch and play defense. 2012 will have a line up that will hit but they also will have the potential to have a strong staff backed by one of the better defensive teams in all of baseball. Their big 3 starters are as good as anyone in the league if healthy. And there is the decider. Health.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]The line up is good, not great. The sox will always score runs. Even back in the sixties when they would come in last place they would lead the league in hitting. They could never pitch and play defense. 2012 will have a line up that will hit but they also will have the potential to have a strong staff backed by one of the better defensive teams in all of baseball. Their big 3 starters are as good as anyone in the league if healthy. And there is the decider. Health.
    Posted by nonola[/QUOTE]

    That makes no sense.  You say they will hit (nbr 1 run scoring team in 2011 and should improve at LF, RF & 3B) and be one of the best defensive teams....but that is merely a good lineup, not a great one?

    What would they have to do to be great?  Have Pedroia close games?  Ellsbury start every 5th game?

    They have to have the pitching, and health is always required, but the Sox have a great lineup.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    What makes no sense is leading the league in runs scored and NOT MAKING THE POSTSEASON. the park contributes to the runs scored as much as the lineup. So now I'll say stupid things like you did. Are you begging for LF to be better then Carl Crawford? Are youu hoping for RF to be better then JD Drew? Are you praying for 3B to have a healthy Youk for the first time in 5 years. Are you dreaming that SS hits as well as he fields? The line up is good not great. Pitching and defense, ask the last two world series winners.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]The Sox had 875 the Yankees were just 8 runs behind at 867 without Arod for almost the entire season. Not to mention the Yankees had some of the lousiest numbers from the DH position in all of the AL. A healthy Arod would improve those numbers for sure. OK, if we grant that ARod will be healthy, then grant us Youk, CC, anr RF'ers as well. That would put us over 900 for sure. Deal? Jete's older. ARod's older. Swish is older. Martin's older. Jones is older. Mo is older than old. The oldest. and on and on...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    So, moonpie, did 

    youk......get younger?
    papi.....get younger?
    beckett.....get younger?
    crawford....get younger (or healthier)?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : So, moonpie, did  youk......get younger? papi.....get younger? beckett.....get younger? crawford....get younger (or healthier)?
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    Everyone knows that the Sox don't age just the Yankees.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    Outside of the sky falling (which appearently happened last year) the AL east should be a tight race. I think the sox have the better lineup, and while I think we have equal potential in our rotation I just see to many question marks so I think the yanks counter with a better rotation. It's all so close.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]What makes no sense is leading the league in runs scored and NOT MAKING THE POSTSEASON. the park contributes to the runs scored as much as the lineup. So now I'll say stupid things like you did. Are you begging for LF to be better then Carl Crawford? Are youu hoping for RF to be better then JD Drew? Are you praying for 3B to have a healthy Youk for the first time in 5 years. Are you dreaming that SS hits as well as he fields? The line up is good not great. Pitching and defense, ask the last two world series winners.
    Posted by nonola[/QUOTE]

    So the number 1 scoring lineup that also plays defense well is not great.... recent or current all stars at 6 positions out of 9 is not great.  Do the Sox have to have 9 allstars in the lineup for you to admit it is great?

    Pitching is a different issue and was the cause of our problems in 2011.




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    Are u kidding me chilli? Your going to base your opinion on the subjective picking of all stars. The red sox have 3 at best. Actual everyday players who if healthy will make the all star team every year. Being subjectively picked to fill out the roster as a rep from every team qualifies as just that. All this being said the Yankees had 16 all stars last year and they won nada.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]Are u kidding me chilli? Your going to base your opinion on the subjective picking of all stars. The red sox have 3 at best. Actual everyday players who if healthy will make the all star team every year. Being subjectively picked to fill out the roster as a rep from every team qualifies as just that. All this being said the Yankees had 16 all stars last year and they won nada.
    Posted by nonola[/QUOTE]

    The main point is that, in your own words, they have a high-scoring lineup that fields well....and they run pretty well too.  Are you confusing "lineup" with "roster"?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : So, moonpie, did  youk......get younger? papi.....get younger? beckett.....get younger? crawford....get younger (or healthier)?
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    The Sox have only 3 players significantly beyond their prime years:
    Papi, Lackey and Punto. Only one is relied upon to produce this year. 

    The Yanks have :
    Mo, Jete, ARod, Kuroda, Garcia, Feliciano, and A. Jones. 6 have starting roles.

    See what you want, but I see age issues with the Yanks.

    I see Youk on the decline, but he will be better than last year's steep decline year. Beckett and Crawford are still in the prime window.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : The Sox have only 3 players significantly beyond their prime years: Papi, Lackey and Punto. Only one is relied upon to produce this year.  The Yanks have : Mo, Jete, ARod, Kuroda, Garcia, Feliciano, and A. Jones. 6 have starting roles. See what you want, but I see age issues with the Yanks. I see Youk on the decline, but he will be better than last year's steep decline year. Beckett and Crawford are still in the prime window.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Feliciano may not even play, Jones is a platoon and Garcia is a 5 or 6 starter. Of course you see age issues, but you have seen them for a few years and yet the Yanks still made the playoffs. You will probably continue with the same tired spiel until you are eventually right.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Feliciano may not even play, Jones is a platoon and Garcia is a 5 or 6 starter. Of course you see age issues, but you have seen them for a few years and yet the Yanks still made the playoffs. You will probably continue with the same tired spiel until you are eventually right.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    Jones will be the starting DH/4th OF'er this year. Yes, Garcia will be the 5/6 guy, but even if you take him out of the "critical" equation, the Yanks still have 5 key players way past prime. We have 1.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Jones will be the starting DH/4th OF'er this year. Yes, Garcia will be the 5/6 guy, but even if you take him out of the "critical" equation, the Yanks still have 5 key players way past prime. We have 1.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No, Jones will be the platoon DH/4th OF. And I'll take the way past his prime Mariano and Jeter on my team any day of the week.

    And I like how you put Swisher as older and past his prime but not youk, even though he is a year older than Swish and clearly more fragile.

    Once again the spinmeister at work.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : No, Jones will be the platoon DH/4th OF. And I'll take the way past his prime Mariano and Jeter on my team any day of the week. And I like how you put Swisher as older and past his prime but not youk, even though he is a year older than Swish and clearly more fragile. Once again the spinmeister at work.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    Who's the Yankee DH if not Jones?

    I said Swisher was near the end of prime and never said Youk wasn't. I'd say Youk is more of a risk of serious decline than Swisher, becuase of his injury issues, but I wouldn't call Youk significantly beyond prime.



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Who's the Yankee DH if not Jones? I said Swisher was near the end of prime and never said Youk wasn't. I'd say Youk is more of a risk of serious decline than Swisher, becuase of his injury issues, but I wouldn't call Youk significantly beyond prime.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    It's widely reported that the Yanks' DH will be a rotation of Jones, Ibanez, Jeter, Arod and Tex. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    Why apologize for Jones? He mashes lefties which is his job. Very comfortable with him. And he can catch the ball.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : It's widely reported that the Yanks' DH will be a rotation of Jones, Ibanez, Jeter, Arod and Tex. 
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    OK, but MLB.com has him listed as the starting DH. He will probably still get over 450 PAs as a DH/OF'er. Let's say he is not crucial, it still leaves 4 critical  Yanks (Mo, Jete, ARod, and Kuroda SIGNIFICANTLY past prime compared to 1 for the Sox.

    I'm not saying these guys stink or are worse than our players at their slots. I merely was pointing it out as a factor in who might get hurt or seriously decline in 2012 as compared to 2011. Age and health are not the only factors. Guys like Jeter and Mo are in great condition for their ages.



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : OK, but MLB.com has him listed as the starting DH. He will probably still get over 450 PAs as a DH/OF'er. Let's say he is not crucial, it still leaves 4 critical  Yanks (Mo, Jete, ARod, and Kuroda SIGNIFICANTLY past prime compared to 1 for the Sox. I'm not saying these guys stink or are worse than our players at their slots. I merely was pointing it out as a factor in who might get hurt or seriously decline in 2012 as compared to 2011. Age and health are not the only factors. Guys like Jeter and Mo are in great condition for their ages.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Age does not necessarily factor into an injury. Look at strasburg....chamberlain....etc.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NunciRom. Show NunciRom's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Age does not necessarily factor into an injury. Look at strasburg....chamberlain....etc.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    True
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Age does not necessarily factor into an injury. Look at strasburg....chamberlain....etc.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    Age is not a factor in injuries? Are you serious? Of course young players get hurt all the time, but you really can't seriously think older players have the same chance of getting hurt as younger players.

    Besides, I was talking about injury and DECLINE. The data clearly shows that almost all players years beyond their prime decline in performance. It's not an exact science, and I'm not saying or hoping any of these older players get hurt, but projecrting decline is supported by years and years of data and my own experience.

    ARod and Jete have already shown decline. They are still very good, but not what they used to be. Kuroda and Mo seem to be defying the rule, but that could all end as suddenly as Posada's example.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???

    In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox lineup, Major's Best??? : Yaz, Not sure that last years September Collapse has any bering on this years team. Unless they allow it too. That said, we all know that pitching, due to injuries was at the heart of why we fell short last year. Our offense was also compromised and you don't go 7 and 20 something for a month after playing over 600 ball for four months, without all three phases of the game playing a role (pitching, defense and timely hitting). That was then... Entering the 2012 season we have a very strong nucleaus and should be in the mix all year and much will depend on key performers having healthy and productive seasons. Our lineup: Youk returing to form and staying on the field will by itself be a boon over the lineup we ran out there sans him from early July to the end of the season. With a healthy youk in the 4-hole. 1-6 I think we match up with any team...7-8-9 or rather SS, RF and catchers position is where we might struggle to matchup with the better lineups (Rangers, Yanks) in terms of depth, not sure I like our bench a ton either.... The Rotation: In the end, it's about getting the requist quality starts and innings from Lester, Beckett & Buccholz to help carry the load while they sort out the #4,#5 and #6 roles in the rotation with Bard, Miller, Doubront and the host of reclamation projects they've singed along with Matsusaka a wildcard in August. Cleary Bard's ability to make the transistion will go a long ways in taking the pressure off the #5/#6 guys and hopefully he can give us enough innings until Matsusaka ready to return...I'd feel a lot better had they bit the bullet and signed a veteran guy like Jackson/Oswalt. Our bullpen: It goes without saying that Bailey, Aceves and Melancon along with Morales all have to step up to close out games. While they sort out the middle guys with Jenks the wildcard. All in all "on paper", I think our pen is solid. Not unlike all teams, you break camp with the best and then tweak it as the season progresses. Front Office: Plan the work, work the plan. In years past the goal was to breakcamp with the best 25 guys. Then evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the team in April and May while formulating a plan to address areas of concern/underperformance. Then in June, July and into August. Make the moves nessesary to bolster the club if they're in a position to be a legit contender with the nulceaus of the team in good health...Last year I think they waited too long to make moves to address the pitching issues and this year I feel like they've missed an opportunity to add a proven arm to the team...time will tell if they're truly commited as an organization to compete in 2012 or are they simpy just playing out the string, hoping for the best with an eye on 2013...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    I think you're on the mark most of the way through ... I think the collapse is a factor for at least the reference of NOT doing it again.  

    The injury factors are right on the mark both in pitching and with Youk.  I hope his season injury free.  

    I think the decisions made are reasonable.  It's funny, when we make big signees, folks go off on them for all sorts reasons. When WE DON"T make big singees folks go into "woe is me" mode.  Can't win for losing as some say.


    I am very satisfied with the line-up.  I'm a little concerned that Salty doesn't have Tek as his mentor ... but he developed so much last season one can hope for even more this year.

    Aviles will do well at short, IMO.  I think Ross and the others will cover RF just fine ... and I don't think any of them will be auto outs. As a matter of fact, I think with Madigan coaching they will all improve some. (See Madigan's influence over Ells for my source of optimism.)

    If Iggy makes it to short...cool.

    Gotta run ....

    I'm all in for 2012 ... and am optimistic about FA pitchers in 2013.



     
     

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