Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAULICAS1975. Show PAULICAS1975's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    Why kick the tires on either one and why not just get both?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    Gio is going to cost more in prospects than the sox will or should give up.

    If Kuroda can be had on a 1 year deal he is worth consideration for the right price.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    ya i would prefer to go after felix hernandez too, but the reality of the situation is that he is not available and the mariners have no intention of trading him. (even though they should) yes geo has his flaws no doubt. he gave up a lot of walks and a fair amount of homers. I believe that if he did come to the sox he would walk a lot less batters. When you play for a team like oakland who struggles mightily to score runs, a lot more pressure is put upon the pitcher. I believe that if gio is on a team that scores runs, he will walk less batters. Another one of the sox options came off the board today with john danks signing a contract exntesion with the white sox. At this point the sox passed on darvish(big mistake), passed on cahill, passed on wilson, danks is no longer available, so basically their options are kuroda(no thanks), oswalt, gio gonzalez, and perhaps jair jurjens. Kuroda is not what the sox need and i really hope they do not sign him. oswalt is a decent option on a 1 year deal. Jurgens i would not have much interest in and it appears the sox do not either. That leaves us with gio gonzalez. He is relatively young (26), left handed, has posted 2 solid seasons in a row, has thrown at least 200 innnings in both (something buchholz has yet to do) and strikes out a lot of batters. And best of all, he is cheap. He will make 4 mill next and is under team control for the next 4 years or so. he makes a lot of sense for the sox. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez : ??? What is the relevance here? Isn't this a Red Sox forum? Isn't there a Mariners Forum that you might go to. You seem to be a sparrow in a flock of Robins here. A lot of effort wasted.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]
    Do you need to troll every thread?
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    Neither will happen, so don't get your hopes up guys.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    Kuroda has a 4.33 ERA vs the AL. He'd be a nice 4th starter, but we shouldn't pay him like he's going to give us a 3.45 ERA (his career number).
    He'll turn 37 in February.

    One encouraging number comparison:
    WHIP career: 1.187
    WHIP v AL:     1.150

    I'd offer him $3-4M/1, which means, no way would he come to Boston if I was the GM. (Someone will pay him more.)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In response to "Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez": [QUOTE]ya i would prefer to go after felix hernandez too, but the reality of the situation is that he is not available and the mariners have no intention of trading him. (even though they should) yes geo has his flaws no doubt. he gave up a lot of walks and a fair amount of homers. I believe that if he did come to the sox he would walk a lot less batters. When you play for a team like oakland who struggles mightily to score runs, a lot more pressure is put upon the pitcher. I believe that if gio is on a team that scores runs, he will walk less batters. Another one of the sox options came off the board today with john danks signing a contract exntesion with the white sox. At this point the sox passed on darvish(big mistake), passed on cahill, passed on wilson, danks is no longer available, so basically their options are kuroda(no thanks), oswalt, gio gonzalez, and perhaps jair jurjens. Kuroda is not what the sox need and i really hope they do not sign him. oswalt is a decent option on a 1 year deal. Jurgens i would not have much interest in and it appears the sox do not either. That leaves us with gio gonzalez. He is relatively young (26), left handed, has posted 2 solid seasons in a row, has thrown at least 200 innnings in both (something buchholz has yet to do) and strikes out a lot of batters. And best of all, he is cheap. He will make 4 mill next and is under team control for the next 4 years or so. he makes a lot of sense for the sox.  Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE] I think you are panicking a bit here. Aceves and Bard both want to start and are going to be given the opportunity. That's 5 spots barring a trade involving one of their starters. They will more likely bring in some relievers and fill rotation depth with a low risk type. Miller, Tazawa, Bowden, Doubront will be depth for now. They don't necessarily NEED a starter, but they do need to increase bullpen depth. There are a few ways to go here, but none of the guys you mention are NEEDS. They can always get a starter at the deadline if they have issues and Dice-k may also be a possibility. No need to panic...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez": I think you are panicking a bit here. Aceves and Bard both want to start and are going to be given the opportunity. That's 5 spots barring a trade involving one of their starters. They will more likely bring in some relievers and fill rotation depth with a low risk type. Miller, Tazawa, Bowden, Doubront will be depth for now. They don't necessarily NEED a starter, but they do need to increase bullpen depth. There are a few ways to go here, but none of the guys you mention are NEEDS. They can always get a starter at the deadline if they have issues and Dice-k may also be a possibility. No need to panic...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    You actually think having just 5 starters is enough?
    Last year we got these starts from our...
    6th starter  23  (Wake)
    7th starter  12  (Miller)
    8th starter    8  (Bedard)
    9th starter    5  (Weiland)
    plus 4 starts from Aceves.

    That's 52 total.

    In 2010 we had 23 from our 6th and lower starters.
    In 2009 we had 41 from our 6th and lower starters.

    How many will we need in 2012?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    At this rate, Wakefield is going to have to come back.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In response to "Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez : You actually think having just 5 starters is enough? Last year we got these starts from our... 6th starter  23  (Wake) 7th starter  12  (Miller) 8th starter    8  (Bedard) 9th starter    5  (Weiland) plus 4 starts from Aceves. That's 52 total. In 2010 we had 23 from our 6th and lower starters. In 2009 we had 41 from our 6th and lower starters. How many will we need in 2012? Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] No, I don't think 5 starters are enough. Well, it was in '04 ;)...you missed my point. If you are telling both Bard and Aceves that they are going to get every opportunity to start, why would you sign or trade for a guy who will pretty much be guaranteed a spot in the rotation? They have some depth to get by if the experiment blows up. Doubront is out of options , so unless he's traded, he'll be stretched out as well. My point was that we are not doomed if we don't bring in Gonzalez, Jurrgens, Salt, Floyd, etc...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez": No, I don't think 5 starters are enough. Well, it was in '04 ;)...you missed my point. If you are telling both Bard and Aceves that they are going to get every opportunity to start, why would you sign or trade for a guy who will pretty much be guaranteed a spot in the rotation? They have some depth to get by if the experiment blows up. Doubront is out of options , so unless he's traded, he'll be stretched out as well. My point was that we are not doomed if we don't bring in Gonzalez, Jurrgens, Salt, Floyd, etc...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    Something to keep in mind when we're talking about starters is that the Sox need at least 2 guys to bolster the depth in 2012. One to replace the innings lost by the injury to Lackey. One to serve as short term (2012) and another as a longer term replacement for Matsuska (2013 and beyond). In essense we need a bandaid "5th starter type" in 2012 to serve as organizational depth, give us innings, along with a longer term "middle of the rotation starter type" to ensure that we have some continuity. To serve as insurance in case Lackey needs more time to rehab as we move into 2013 and also take Matsusaka spot...

    Internal options for the 5th starter are Bard, Aceves, Doubront, Miller, Tazawa and dare I say Wakefield. None of whom can be counted on to give us 33 starts/200 innings with a sub 4.50 ERA in 2012. Bard is clearly the most intriguing guy, who's upside is that of a top of the rotation starter, but it'll take a couple of years to ready him to handle the increased work load. Aceves is another, but I think his value is in his ability to pitch mulitple innings out of the pen..

    In terms of aquiring a starter via trade. We can probably find a serviceable #5 without having to gut the farm. In the end I think the equasion comes down to if we can aquire a top of the rotation young starter, who's under the teams control for a minimum of 3 years. Does that mitigate the loss of moving one of our top pitching prospects....Down on the farm our two key "chips" are Ranaundo and Barnes, who are both targeted to make the jump in late 2013 or at the begining of 2014. Either/or can be used in a deal to aquire a veteran (Gonzalez or Jurrgens type) or be allowed to mature in the system and serve as long term bridges to the future as Beckett and Lesters deals expire in 2015.

    In terms of free agents Kuroda and/or Jackson would be my top choices, both would only cost dollars and of the two I'd take Jackson based on age and stuff. Saunders, also a FA, is a poor mans Mark Buerhle and would be a servicable 5th starter. All three are solid middle too back of the roation starters who'll likely sign 2 or 3 year deals in the 5M (Saunders)-10M (Jackson) per range. There's a few others that are intriguing and could also be in the mix for the organizational depth/5th starter role. of which I'm certian they'll kick the tires on...

    Oswalt, who it appears is only interested in signing for the 2012 season and is considering retirement, represents the biggest risk/reward of the available FA starters. No longer the top of the rotation starter, he once was, due to a chronic back problem, a condition that has robbed him of his once dominant stuff. Word on the street is that the Yankees are in the mix to sign him to replace Colon. In the right situation he could prove to be a valuable 25 to 30starts 150-180 inning sub 4.00 era guy, if you can keep him on the field and give him a blow every 5 or 6 starts. If the expectation is that you're getting the Oswalt that pitched for the Astros buyer beware...


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]I'd be good with either, though Gio would be preferable for his youth.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Although not so much for his control issues...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox4life2280. Show sox4life2280's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez : Have you ever seen Kuroda pitch? A nobody is an anonymous person who calls someone else a nobody. By definition.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I have seen Kuroda pitch and my stomach is still sour from it.
    He let up 24 HOME RUNS last year...not the type of pitcher you want at Fenway.
    He has only pitched over .500 winning percentage once (2 years ago, 8-7 not exactly stellar).  He would get eaten up by the media and fan pressure to perform in Boston.  There are way better options out there.  Roy Oswalt is a PROVEN veteran pitcher who can bring experience and discipline for only one year and moderate money.  He is the clear and educated choice. Joe Saunders is worth a small risk to replace Wakefield as a mop-up/spot start guy.

    And to correct you...by definition...a nobody - not anyone, a person of no importance, power, or influence.

    Clearly you must think before you speak.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Gio Gonzalez bidding is nearing a close with two teams: the Nationals and perhaps the Marlins or Red Sox.

    http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/status/149929242388471808
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    With nats getting gonzalez do sox step up and sign him now???  I doubt it.  I think they go for oswalt or saunders instead.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Sox trying to decide between Hiroki Kuroda or Gio Gonzalez

    My guess is that since the Sox missed out on Gonzalez, that they:

    a - don't want to part with enough good young talent to get a good starter or
    b - don't have the talent to actually engineer a trade for a good starter

    I think it would be a mistake to trade young minor league talent for a starter.  This team has a decimated minor league system that can't help the parent club for a year or two down the road - fans had a chance to see all of the minor league talent that was supposedly major league ready last year and the disappointment was very big for fans.  The minor league system must be restocked with good talent.
     

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