Starts at the top

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from acoolbreeze. Show acoolbreeze's posts

    Starts at the top

    Something is wrong with their drafting and scouting. Only two SPs in their rotation (Lester and Bucholz) that they drafted and one of them was drafted by Mike Port (Lester).

    We all complain about overspending for mediocre SPs in the FA market, but, really, what other options do they have? They gave up a 5-tool shortstop to get Beckett.

    Sox have harvested 23 additional 1st and sandwich round picks since 2003 as compensation for losing UFAs. Very little to show for it despite also throwing lots of bonus money at hard signs that got pushed to them in the late 1st and sandwich (Hansen, Hagadone, Bard, Ranaudo). The Rays rotation is all home-grown and better with a fraction of the resources.

    Also, where is their latin program? Last latin ball-player signed by the Sox to make it to the bigs was Hanley Ramirez (Duke sign). The Yankees latin program is off the charts (Cano, Rivera, Posada, Cervelli, Montero, Betances, Sanchez, others). Jose Iglesias where are you?

    This is an organizational systemic problem that starts at the top.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]Something is wrong with their drafting and scouting. Only two SPs in their rotation (Lester and Bucholz) that they drafted and one of them was drafted by Mike Port (Lester). We all complain about overspending for mediocre SPs in the FA market, but, really, what other options do they have? They gave up a 5-tool shortstop to get Beckett. Sox have harvested 23 additional 1st and sandwich round picks since 2003 as compensation for losing UFAs. Very little to show for it despite also throwing lots of bonus money at hard signs that got pushed to them in the late 1st and sandwich (Hansen, Hagadone, Bard, Ranaudo). The Rays rotation is all home-grown and better with a fraction of the resources. Also, where is their latin program? Last latin ball-player signed by the Sox to make it to the bigs was Hanley Ramirez (Duke sign). The Yankees latin program is off the charts (Cano, Rivera, Posada, Cervelli, Montero, Betances, Sanchez, others). Jose Iglesias where are you? This is an organizational systemic problem that starts at the top.
    Posted by acoolbreeze[/QUOTE]

    Excellent observation/question.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    Who did the Red Sox trade to SD to get Agon?
    Who did the Red Sox trade to Cleveland to get VMart?

    And yes, they gave up a 5 tool SS to get Beckett, who helped win a WS.  Terrible trade.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]Something is wrong with their drafting and scouting. Only two SPs in their rotation (Lester and Bucholz) that they drafted and one of them was drafted by Mike Port (Lester). We all complain about overspending for mediocre SPs in the FA market, but, really, what other options do they have? They gave up a 5-tool shortstop to get Beckett. Sox have harvested 23 additional 1st and sandwich round picks since 2003 as compensation for losing UFAs. Very little to show for it despite also throwing lots of bonus money at hard signs that got pushed to them in the late 1st and sandwich (Hansen, Hagadone, Bard, Ranaudo). The Rays rotation is all home-grown and better with a fraction of the resources. Also, where is their latin program? Last latin ball-player signed by the Sox to make it to the bigs was Hanley Ramirez (Duke sign). The Yankees latin program is off the charts (Cano, Rivera, Posada, Cervelli, Montero, Betances, Sanchez, others). Jose Iglesias where are you? This is an organizational systemic problem that starts at the top.
    Posted by acoolbreeze[/QUOTE]
    Good points about the Rays ... David Price (2007) and Jeff Niemann (2004) were first-round picks who were taken before the Red Sox had a pick, but the Sox passed on James Shields (16th round, 2000), Wade Davis (3rd round, 2004) and Jeremy Hellickson (4th round, 2005).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    "only" Buchholz and Lester. I love it.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Re: Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Starts at the top : i agree, but can't you just say theo's name. theo, theo, theo. when the sox don't make the playoffs, hopefully, theo will be gone. just for signing SLACKEY and CRAWFUL should get him fired. the george w of baseball GM'S.
    Posted by thee---crawful[/QUOTE]
    The fact is that if the Red Sox fire Theo, you will gripe just as much about the new GM and continue tirades towards others.

    Having said that, if we do not make the playoffs, it most certainly time for John Henry to take a very hard look at the Front Office, the Coaching Staff, Scouting and definately the Medical/Trainer areas.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Re: Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Starts at the top : i agree, but can't you just say theo's name. theo, theo, theo. when the sox don't make the playoffs, hopefully, theo will be gone. just for signing SLACKEY and CRAWFUL should get him fired. the george w of baseball GM'S.
    Posted by thee---crawful[/QUOTE]

    I don't remember winning anything under Bush. In fact, most of us are still losing because of him. Pretty bad analogy dude.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    Ells, Pedroia, Bard, Buch Papelbon and other ML were all drafted since Theo has been GM. Other Top picks, like Kelly, Rizzo, Fuented, Hagadone and Masterson were traded for VMart and Agon....some more recent picks like Lavarnway and Middlebrooks are highly regarded to make the jump. .....Reddick was a 17th pick. Fact of the matter is that when you are not picking Top 10 in any sport it is a crap shoot.....I think the Sox have done way better than averag in drafting and taking advantage of paying over slot.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee---crawful. Show thee---crawful's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Re: Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Starts at the top : The fact is that if the Red Sox fire Theo, you will gripe just as much about the new GM and continue tirades towards others. Having said that, if we do not make the playoffs, it most certainly time for John Henry to take a very hard look at the Front Office, the Coaching Staff, Scouting and definately the Medical/Trainer areas.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]


    how do you know sindarin breath.
    i doubt a worse gm could be found anywhere.
    hopefully, the CUBS don't make the mistake of hiring the fool.
    they'll be broke and still out of the playoffs.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee---crawful. Show thee---crawful's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Re: Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Starts at the top : I don't remember winning anything under Bush. In fact, most of us are still losing because of him. Pretty bad analogy dude.
    Posted by emp9[/QUOTE]

    the analogy referred to both of them being arrogant and stupid at the same time.


    please fire theo!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    In Response to Re: Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Starts at the top : Good points about the Rays ... David Price (2007) and Jeff Niemann (2004) were first-round picks who were taken before the Red Sox had a pick, but the Sox passed on James Shields (16th round, 2000), Wade Davis (3rd round, 2004) and Jeremy Hellickson (4th round, 2005).
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    The Rays have had a nice run -- everything goes in cycles --  but before we annoint Andrew Friedman as some kind of wunderkind GM, it's worth nothing that Nieman, Shields, Hellickson and Davis were all drafted by Chuck LaMar's regime.

    Also remember, it was Duquette who passed on Shields in 2000.

    And let's put some more context.

    In 2004, the Sox had just one pick before Davis was drafted and took Pedroia in the second round, which of course was a much better pick. Davis has yet to show he's anything more than a mediocre starter (4.07 ERA last year, 4.41 ERA this year).

    As for 2005, Hellickson was the fourth player the Rays took in that draft and the 118th overall. Here's who they took before him
    Wade Townsend
    Chris Mason
    Bryan Morris
    Jeremy Hellickson

    As of now, Hellickson is the only one who has done anything.

    Here's who the Sox took before Hellickson was drafted:
    Ellsbury
    Hanson (disappointment but was used to get Bay)
    Buchholz
    Lowrie
    Bowden
    Jonathan Egan

    Now you tell me, who drafted better in 2005.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    ZIn Response to Starts at the top:
    [QUOTE]Something is wrong with their drafting and scouting. Only two SPs in their rotation (Lester and Bucholz) that they drafted and one of them was drafted by Mike Port (Lester). We all complain about overspending for mediocre SPs in the FA market, but, really, what other options do they have? They gave up a 5-tool shortstop to get Beckett. Sox have harvested 23 additional 1st and sandwich round picks since 2003 as compensation for losing UFAs. Very little to show for it despite also throwing lots of bonus money at hard signs that got pushed to them in the late 1st and sandwich (Hansen, Hagadone, Bard, Ranaudo). The Rays rotation is all home-grown and better with a fraction of the resources. Also, where is their latin program? Last latin ball-player signed by the Sox to make it to the bigs was Hanley Ramirez (Duke sign). The Yankees latin program is off the charts (Cano, Rivera, Posada, Cervelli, Montero, Betances, Sanchez, others). Jose Iglesias where are you? This is an organizational systemic problem that starts at the top.
    Posted by acoolbreeze[/QUOTE]

    One point you fail to recognize is that during the time of their bad teams, the Rays have had the opportunity to acquire the top pick in the draft which helped them land the extraordinary pitching talent they are displaying now.

    Maybe if the Sox tank it for the next few years they can draft the top stud pitchers/hitters coming out of HS and college like the Rays and more recently the Nationals.

    Things are not as simplistic as saying the Sox have not drafted pitching considering that they field a competitive team every year. Actually Theo and his team have been most prolific drafting players rather than acquiring free agents, but the real stud players are long gone before they select.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Starts at the top

    The Rays have a good farm system in large part because the were so bad for so long.  They had really high draft picks for many years and are reaping the rewards for having such high draft picks.
     

Share