That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
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    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:
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    BosoxJoe5 that is quite bold of you to say such a thing... I wouldn't bet on it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just what I was thinking

    [/QUOTE]


    It's obvious, based on previous all-star voting, that fans value offense over defense.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BosoxJoe5 that is quite bold of you to say such a thing... I wouldn't bet on it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just what I was thinking

    [/QUOTE]


    It's obvious, based on previous all-star voting, that fans value offense over defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was including reserve roles.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
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    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
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    Blow it out your softy

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    i'm just saying. i liked Felix as a postseason starter

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    Felix hit a wall with his IP because he came into camp AGAIN out of shape, or didnt you notice him falling off a cliff in Aug and Sept. Dempster obviously wasnt the guy and Buch was hurt. We had the #2 rated SS prospect in ALL MLB waiting to take over. He is far beyond the player that Iggy is and will be. I like Iggy, but it is what it is. Xander is the better SS. We got a pitcher that helped us get to the postseason the final 2 months of the season. Hes our #4 in the playoffs, relax. 2-2 with Lester going tonight and heading back to Boston on Saturday.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't blame it all on Pedroia.  3 walks that inning by Peavy were lethal.  You walk a bunch of guys and you're creating the scenario for very bad things to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I think the point is if pedey exacuted the DP, all those walks would have happened that inning. I do agree that Peavy didnt have it last night and the walks probabl;y would have come at some point. But hes right as far as pedey not making that play. Peavy is out of the inning with only 1 run crossing home. Thats huge.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    I guarantee that, if by some chance , Peavy had pitched a shutout last night, his supporters would be crowing about the trade. Well, Peavy stunk out the joint. Now , the spin doctors are trying to soft pedal it. Come on guys , it was you who said this is why Peavy was acquired, to pitch in big games. To win in big games. He failed. The bottom line is that it is not smart to trade a 23 year old shortstop, who is one of the best defenders you are going to see , and improving as a hitter , for a 32 year old, past his prime pitcher with diminished velocity. Not saying that Peavy is horrible, just that there are quite a few guys around as good or better. He is in no way worth trading Iglesias.  The argument that Iglesias was expendable because we have Bogaerts is laughable. Since when is it not desirable to have two such promising young talents on your team ?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Peavy was a big part of getting us here in Aug and sept. *fact* His 1st outing was great. *fact* He could have gone longer but farrell played the lefty on lefty card and pulled him early. *fact* He had a bad game last night.*fact*

    get over it and move on already. Pedey had a part in it with his missed DP attemp that would have ended the inning with 1 run scored, along with 10+ men LOB and like 1-12 with RISP.

    What I find funny is the jokers here blasting the trade because of 1 game. Didnt Iggy throw the ball into the stands which allowed the Sox to eventually win that game? *crickets* neither Iggy nor Peavy "lost those games".

    For all those trying to blame a 9 inning game on one person, you might want to rethink things.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Jake Peavy is not now nor has he ever been a big game pitcher

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Not basing my opinion on one game. I said it from day one. This trade was a blunder. That will become more and more obvious over time, although some will never admit it.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Zetterberg80. Show Zetterberg80's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Iglesias' defense is overrated. Yes, he's excellent with the glove. But this notion this he's an all-time great defender is a bit premature.

    In fact, he's probably not even the best defensive shortstop in the game today. Andrelton Simmons, for one, is probably better and the data and the eyeball test seem to back that up. 

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/is-andrelton-simmons-having-the-best-defensive-season-ever/

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't blame it all on Pedroia.  3 walks that inning by Peavy were lethal.  You walk a bunch of guys and you're creating the scenario for very bad things to happen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    No doubt. The walks to Avilla and Jackson were both signs that he didn't trust his stuff. While I agree that it's not all on Pedrioa, it was a play that he usually makes with ease (The end of the day the reply showed the ball beat Iglesias) and if they turn it cleanly it's 1-0 instead of 5-0...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    I still think the Peavy trade was a good trade for the time when it was made. I like Peavy. I think he brings a good energy and work ethic.  Like others have said..he is part of the reason we are even in the position we are in.

    He had a bad day yesterday. Everyone has a bad day. It's unfortunate that it happened last night and in such a fashion...but I don't think one outing defines Peavy any more than one outing defined anyone else on the team. I'd still rather have him on the mound over Dubrount and Dempster.

    The Sox overall are not playing well. I've said before and I will say it again..you can't let it all rest on your pitcher.  Eventually you have to have  decent offense. Lacky was probably better prepared mentally because he is used to pitching in situations where he gets little run support.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Not basing my opinion on one game. I said it from day one. This trade was a blunder. That will become more and more obvious over time, although some will never admit it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Or some might simply see it differently...

    Iglesias could well become an all time great...It's not like Cherington wanted to trade the kid....That said, he's been in our system for 3 years and the Sox still felt that he wasn't ready to be the everyday SS even though we had a need...That is perhaps the most telling sign of what they thought of him entering the 2013 season.

    End of the day your entitled to your opinion and in time or when you feel enough time has passed and your ready to present the evidence of the blunder...I'll be here to debate the merits of your argument.

    Here's the deal given the uncertainty of Buccholz return the Sox needed to add a starter to ensure that they finished strong. Once in the postseason they wanted to have options if Buccholz couldn't go and becasue they expected Doubront to reach his innings limit and expected him to  hit a wall and although Dempster pitched faily well for most of the season, he struggled to give a team length all year...Given where the team was Cherington and the owners stepped up and dealt a very good prospect and took on a large contract in the interest of trying to bolster what could have been a fatal flaw. In dealing Iglesias, with Drew (who is the better player) and young Bogearts on the roster who was not ever a consideration to be dealt, Iglesias was deemed expendable. no Iglesias = no Garcia = no deal. Thus the Sox dealt from a position of strength and in order to get the Tigers to give the White Sox Avisil Garcia a top OF prospect who they had under control for all of his arbitration years.  The Sox had to give up Iglesias or Detriot was out All three teams filled a need...win, win, win...

    There's no reason to disparage Iglesias nor is there any reason to over react...he's a solid prospect that has some amazing tools. I hope for him to one day be a hall of famer...it won't change my opinion of the trade...last nights game won't either...

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 

    [/QUOTE]

    A friendly word of advice here - give up on this crusade.

    The people who have bought into how good this trade was will be saying the same thing in spite of how much empirical evidence is used.  Not you, not me, not evidence,  is going to change their minds because they'd have to admit that they were wrong - and they've taken such a strong stand that they can't do it now.

    BUT... continuing to beat this dead horse accomplishes nothing other than giving the supporters of the trade another opportunity to try to defend it - a defense which it sorely needs.  Instead find your old pal Jack Daniels, have a talk with him, and put it behind you. 

    Good trades happen.  Bad trades happen.  We got stuck on this one.  Put it behind you and move on.   

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Names and exactly what is your definition of cost...

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedroia is more at fault than Peavy. if the Sox lose this Series, Pedroia is probably taking the brunt of these.

    [/QUOTE]


    Pedroia was certainly not Pedroia last night.  He was imitating a fisherman at the plate and what's worse he took a couple of pitches right down the tank and swung at all sorts of servings off the plate.  We need a much better Pedroia tonight if we want to win.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedroia is more at fault than Peavy. if the Sox lose this Series, Pedroia is probably taking the brunt of these.

    [/QUOTE]


    Pedroia was certainly not Pedroia last night.  He was imitating a fisherman at the plate and what's worse he took a couple of pitches right down the tank and swung at all sorts of servings off the plate.  We need a much better Pedroia tonight if we want to win.

    [/QUOTE]

    Dispite his booting the ball the replay confirmed that Iglesias was out...next year that play gets overturned...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    in defense of peavy he should have had ross for a catcher

    [/QUOTE]

    I was thinking the same thing.  As much as I like Salty...Ross would have done a much better job of managing  Peavy. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    Peavy has had one good post-season start and one bad post-season start.

    Iglesias is 3 for 19 this post-season, and his spectacular defense handed us game 2.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 



    Names and exactly what is your definition of cost...

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Just offhand, Nolasco, Feldman and Norris. Sure there were others. In terms of cost, not so much the salary, but the cost of losing Iglesias. I really don't want to continue this ad infinitum. Time will tell.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 

    [/QUOTE]

    A friendly word of advice here - give up on this crusade.

    The people who have bought into how good this trade was will be saying the same thing in spite of how much empirical evidence is used.  Not you, not me, not evidence,  is going to change their minds because they'd have to admit that they were wrong - and they've taken such a strong stand that they can't do it now.

    BUT... continuing to beat this dead horse accomplishes nothing other than giving the supporters of the trade another opportunity to try to defend it - a defense which it sorely needs.  Instead find your old pal Jack Daniels, have a talk with him, and put it behind you. 

    Good trades happen.  Bad trades happen.  We got stuck on this one.  Put it behind you and move on.   

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Questions...

    Are the Sox not in ALCS? 

    Did Peavy not win the clincher in Tampa?

    Why do so many of the Iggy loyalist feel like they have to continue to call out those that have a different opinion on the relative merits of the trade? 

    i don't think anyone pro or con disputes that the kid can play, I get it...hopefully one day Iggy realizes his vast potential and becomes a perrenial All Star. 

     

     

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Substitute Doubront or Workman for Peavy, and we would be in the same situation. And , we would still have Iglesias. In fact , there were other pitchers available at the deadline that were comparable to Peavy , and would not have cost nearly as much. 

    [/QUOTE]

    A friendly word of advice here - give up on this crusade.

    The people who have bought into how good this trade was will be saying the same thing in spite of how much empirical evidence is used.  Not you, not me, not evidence,  is going to change their minds because they'd have to admit that they were wrong - and they've taken such a strong stand that they can't do it now.

    BUT... continuing to beat this dead horse accomplishes nothing other than giving the supporters of the trade another opportunity to try to defend it - a defense which it sorely needs.  Instead find your old pal Jack Daniels, have a talk with him, and put it behind you. 

    Good trades happen.  Bad trades happen.  We got stuck on this one.  Put it behind you and move on.   

     

    [/QUOTE]


        Yeah, I guess you are right. Time to give up. I think if some of these guys were around in 1919, they would have defended selling Ruth to the Yankees. After all , he only projected to be a number four starting pitcher on the Sox. And ," No, No  Nannette " figured to be a smash hit.  Who knew that Ruth would become the " Bambino " , and the play would bomb ? It was a good deal at the time. Not comparing Iglesias to the Babe, just suggesting how stubborn some of these guys can be.  I am going to let this debate end. I am sure sure the others will carefully monitor Iglesias' career and be sure to point out any problems that he may have.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: That Trade for Peavy looks real good!

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I guarantee that, if by some chance , Peavy had pitched a shutout last night, his supporters would be crowing about the trade. Well, Peavy stunk out the joint. Now , the spin doctors are trying to soft pedal it. Come on guys , it was you who said this is why Peavy was acquired, to pitch in big games. To win in big games. He failed. The bottom line is that it is not smart to trade a 23 year old shortstop, who is one of the best defenders you are going to see , and improving as a hitter , for a 32 year old, past his prime pitcher with diminished velocity. Not saying that Peavy is horrible, just that there are quite a few guys around as good or better. He is in no way worth trading Iglesias.  The argument that Iglesias was expendable because we have Bogaerts is laughable. Since when is it not desirable to have two such promising young talents on your team ?

    [/QUOTE]


    You keep talking about spin doctors, I have said this before, I don't think there is anything that special about Iggy.  You think there is.  Time will tell.

    They sold high on Iggy.  If he didn't have that ridiculous hot streak they wouldnt have even gotten Peavery for him.

    Last year you, and others here, were all about Reddick. This year no one mentions his name at all.

    Why? Because he isn't that good. Neither is Iggy.

     

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