The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

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    The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Evans, Yaz and Vaughn. All Red Sox greats, and at that the same point of experience (110) games, as Middlebrooks, we see some All-Stars and some non-stars. First of all the careers of Fisk, Lynn and Rice got off to tremendous starts, they were all candidates for ROY and MVP. But who leads them in HR? Middlebrooks with 21. Middy's .267 BA, outpaces Yaz (.257), Vaughn (.240) and Evans (.225). Slugging, Will posts a .479, which tops Yaz (.363), Vaughan (.359) and Evans (.359) and falls in right behind Rice (.482). How about RBI's Lynn with an amazing 85, Rice with 77, and then comes Middlebrooks 67, ahead of Yaz's 58. Fisk's 54, Vaughn's 49, and Dewey's 27.

    It's clear by comparison Will is in some pretty good company, And I think the critics need to calm down.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Hes looked more like hes taking what their giving him the last couple games. That will allow him to get more hits, will force the pitchers to come back in on him, and he should see better pitches. Im still worried about his flailing at outside offspeed stuff, but hes still young. I think hes always going to have a bunch of K's, but i think with a better approach, he can keep that in check.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    SP, most young players go through this succeed/fail/succedd process, don't know why young Will is taking so much heat.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    SP, most young players go through this succeed/fail/succedd process, don't know why young Will is taking so much heat.




    Just typical boston know it all, panic at the first sign of trouble fans.

    Most of them are still "kids" when it comes to MLB. They need to be given a little extra time than normal to work things out. Will seems to have made some slight adjustments the last few games. Lets see if he keeps it going in Tampa. Also, hes dealing with that rib injury now.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to youkillus' comment:

     

    SP, most young players go through this succeed/fail/succedd process, don't know why young Will is taking so much heat.

     




    Just typical boston know it all, panic at the first sign of trouble fans.

     

    Most of them are still "kids" when it comes to MLB. They need to be given a little extra time than normal to work things out. Will seems to have made some slight adjustments the last few games. Lets see if he keeps it going in Tampa. Also, hes dealing with that rib injury now.

     


    What an incredible catch that was, reminds me of Mr.Hobson catching balls in the dugout!

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Middlebrooks has a frame and swing that produces highly efficient power and pop. Unless he gets a serious injury, experience and the big career sample size will produce an above average 3rd base power and pop MLB career. He missed a lot of time last season and has never played a full major league season. I have no long term worries about him realizing his above average MLB career potential.




    agree 100%

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to TV-Guy's comment:

    Softlaw has found the token Red Sox player that he likes. After all he has to have some credibility.




    And I'm a big fan of Pike, er Carp.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Agreed, he's got it. It being above MLB average skills. 2-3 Years from now he goes on a five year span of 25+ HR, 100 RBI, BA in the 280's.   

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Nothing is definitive.

    Here are some career statistics for Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Dwight Evans, Carl Yastrzemski, Mo Vaughn and Will Middlebrooks:

    CF BB 8.6%, K 14.1%

    FL BB 10.8%, K 14.1%

    JR BB 7.4%, K 15.7%

    DE BB 13.2%, K 16.1%

    CY BB 13.2%, K 10.0%

    MV BB 11.3%, K 22.3%

    WM BB 4.2%, K 25.9%

    Even early in their careers, Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Evans, Yastrzemski and Vaughn never showed the walk/strikeout disparity that has plagued Middlebrooks.

    Therein lies the difference.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Nothing is definitive.

    Here are some career statistics for Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Dwight Evans, Carl Yastrzemski, Mo Vaughn and Will Middlebrooks:

    CF BB 8.6%, K 14.1%

    FL BB 10.8%, K 14.1%

    JR BB 7.4%, K 15.7%

    DE BB 13.2%, K 16.1%

    CY BB 13.2%, K 10.0%

    MV BB 11.3%, K 22.3%

    WM BB 4.2%, K 25.9%

    Even early in their careers, Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Evans, Yastrzemski and Vaughn never showed the walk/strikeout disparity that has plagued Middlebrooks.

    Therein lies the difference.



    Jesus Montero career    5.9 %  BB   18.7 % K   ISO  142

    WMB   ISO   .216

    3B MLB  2013  XBH  rank  6th 

    His fielding is the bigger question IMO.  If he is a plus fielder and a power hitter with a .310 OBP he will be an above average 3B.   If he is a poor fielder he won't be.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Nothing is definitive.

    Here are some career statistics for Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Dwight Evans, Carl Yastrzemski, Mo Vaughn and Will Middlebrooks:

    CF BB 8.6%, K 14.1%

    FL BB 10.8%, K 14.1%

    JR BB 7.4%, K 15.7%

    DE BB 13.2%, K 16.1%

    CY BB 13.2%, K 10.0%

    MV BB 11.3%, K 22.3%

    WM BB 4.2%, K 25.9%

    Even early in their careers, Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Evans, Yastrzemski and Vaughn never showed the walk/strikeout disparity that has plagued Middlebrooks.

    Therein lies the difference.

    Jesus Montero career    5.9 %  BB   18.7 % K   ISO  142

    WMB   ISO   .216

    3B MLB  2013  XBH  rank  6th 

    His fielding is the bigger question IMO.  If he is a plus fielder and a power hitter with a .310 OBP he will be an above average 3B.   If he is a poor fielder he won't be.



    I agree that much rests on the defensive performance of Will Middlebrooks, who ranked 19th among 21 qualified thirdbasemen with a negative 0.4 WAR before today's 0-for-4 performance with two strikeouts and another error.l

    It's not encouraging that your benchmark for 24-year-old thirdbaseman Will Middlebrooks is floundering 23-year-old catcher Jesus Montero, whose numbers** approach Middlebrooks' despite playing in a pitcher's ballpark in a reputedly weak lineup.

    * Wins Abiove Replacement as reported at FanGraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    ** including a WAR of a negative 0.2

     
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    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Its a learning process, you got to have patience with kids. This is MLB, not the Minors. He'll be OK.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Its a learning process, you got to have patience with kids. This is MLB, not the Minors. He'll be OK.

    That might be Will Middlebrooks' problem (although Middlebrooks had related issues in the minors).

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Agreed, even though I suggested sending him to AAA for a bit. His swing is too good, and his bat too explosive for him not to be a very good/great hitter eventually.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    I confess to having prayed once or twice that Kimsaysthis, pike and softy are actually the same person...Whatever happened to "I'm not Pike" kimsaysthis?? So many posters insisted she and pike were not the same...Whither has she flown, if not deep-sixed by TV-Guy himself??

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    In response to hill55's comment:

    Nothing is definitive.

    Here are some career statistics for Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Dwight Evans, Carl Yastrzemski, Mo Vaughn and Will Middlebrooks:

    CF BB 8.6%, K 14.1%

    FL BB 10.8%, K 14.1%

    JR BB 7.4%, K 15.7%

    DE BB 13.2%, K 16.1%

    CY BB 13.2%, K 10.0%

    MV BB 11.3%, K 22.3%

    WM BB 4.2%, K 25.9%

    Even early in their careers, Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Evans, Yastrzemski and Vaughn never showed the walk/strikeout disparity that has plagued Middlebrooks.

    Therein lies the difference.



    I am not convinced that WMB is the long term solution for us at 3B. Lets see where he is at by the end of the year.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill2. Show aussiewill2's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    Presently he looks awful on the slow stuff away, that's why he is hitting .200. The good news he kills the stuff hard and middle in. So if he can lay off the breaking stuff away, he should be fine. That is a big if.

    He has the perfect Fenway swing, he's good with the glove, he should be fine, but probably not this year. He should be sent down, but they are going no where, so leave him up and hope he doesn't get overwhelmed. He's got the tools, but he has to learn how to hit the breaking stuff, or he will go the way of lot's of prospects before him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: The Definitve Middlebrooks Primer

    I agree that much rests on the defensive performance of Will Middlebrooks, who ranked 19th among 21 qualified thirdbasemen with a negative0.4 WAR before today's 0-for-4 performance with two strikeouts and another error.

    The sample cited above is so small it means close to nothing.

    It's not encouraging that your benchmark for 24-year-old thirdbaseman Will Middlebrooks is floundering 23-year-old catcher Jesus Montero, whose numbers** approach Middlebrooks' despite playing in a pitcher's ballpark in a reputedly weak lineup.

    But BA rankings are very important and they had JM as a much better prospect than WMB.  

    JM career numbers don't indicate a large home park problem to me.

    h / a  OPS:  695  /  709        ISO  141 /  140      wRC+  99  /  89

    WMB has a decent chance of being a high power/low discipline/good fielder.  JM is most likely a DH with average power and a low OBP.  ZIPs projections (like BA rankings are very important to some posters), they project JM as poor fielder, poor base runner, and poor hitter for the rest of the season.  

    MLB steroids: Jesus Montero the latest name linked to Biogenesis clinic PUBLISHED  Wednesday, Feb 6, 2013

     



     

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