The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
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    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. He was trained by Epstein, the guy who put us where we are today.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Please name a better GM in Red Sox history.  And before you bring up Duquette - who did have some good points - he had the team for only one less season, he did have team payrolls far more commeasurate with league leaders, and he never won anything...

    [/QUOTE]


    His name is Dick O'Connell.... I should not have to educate you on this one.

     

    Dick O'Connell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. He was trained by Epstein, the guy who put us where we are today.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Please name a better GM in Red Sox history.  And before you bring up Duquette - who did have some good points - he had the team for only one less season, he did have team payrolls far more commeasurate with league leaders, and he never won anything...

    [/QUOTE]


    His name is Dick O'Connell.... I should not have to educate you on this one.

     

    Dick O'Connell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     

    [/QUOTE]


    He was the man who got the farm system back on track and drafted some future all stars and HOF players. He had his share of mistakes, but is def one of the best GM's in Red Sox history.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    I cannot speak for anything prior to 1970 but DO was the best since then. Simple. He did not choke in 1974 or 1978 or fail to win Game 7 of the 1975 WS. He did an amazing job!  He tried to get Rollie and Rudi, something that today would have been approved. He was booted by Sullivan and the Old Lady because they did not like him peronally and then look what happened!  1979 forward. Fisk, Lynn, Cooper, etc',......

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I cannot speak for anything prior to 1970 but DO was the best since then. Simple. He did not choke in 1974 or 1978 or fail to win Game 7 of the 1975 WS. He did an amazing job!  He tried to get Rollie and Rudi, something that today would have been approved. He was booted by Sullivan and the Old Lady because they did not like him peronally and then look what happened!  1979 forward. Fisk, Lynn, Cooper, etc',......

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I cant speak before 1970 as well...Ive read about him and my dad and uncles would tell me things as well...I was in the single digits when DO was in charge.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    me 2! I am 41 now

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    me 2! I am 41 now

    [/QUOTE]


    yup, Im 43...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    He had all of last year and failed miserably. He did nothing at the TD when the Sox still had an opportunity to make the PS.

    He has had nearly one month to beef up the rotation with some good pitchers in the FA pool and has done nothing except sign a back-up catcher.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He had all of last year and failed miserably. He did nothing at the TD when the Sox still had an opportunity to make the PS.

    He has had nearly one month to beef up the rotation with some good pitchers in the FA pool and has done nothing except sign a back-up catcher.

    [/QUOTE]


    He had financial restraints last year. Fact. The Sox were not going to sell the farm at the deadline unless they had a legit shot, which they didnt. fact.

    25 other teams havent done anything either, whats your point?

    FA sometimes lasts into Jan. it not always a quick process. There are some players that will sign early, but most will try and get the most they can and try to get teams in a bidding war. That takes time.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. He was trained by Epstein, the guy who put us where we are today.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Please name a better GM in Red Sox history.  And before you bring up Duquette - who did have some good points - he had the team for only one less season, he did have team payrolls far more commeasurate with league leaders, and he never won anything...

    [/QUOTE]

    Duquette built a significant part of the 2004 team; and as others have pointed out O'Connell was better than Epstein too. Why compare him with only Red Sox GMs? Why not contrast him with the best GMs in baseball? Friedman of Tampa Bay; Sabean of the Giants...and so forth. Epstein brought us one ring on his own, the 2007 ring. Since then the team, largely under his watch, has deteriorated nearly every year. Thats not the mark of a good GM. I do not think this is even debatable.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He had all of last year and failed miserably. He did nothing at the TD when the Sox still had an opportunity to make the PS.

    He has had nearly one month to beef up the rotation with some good pitchers in the FA pool and has done nothing except sign a back-up catcher.

    [/QUOTE]


    He had financial restraints last year. Fact. The Sox were not going to sell the farm at the deadline unless they had a legit shot, which they didnt. fact.

    25 other teams havent done anything either, whats your point?

    FA sometimes lasts into Jan. it not always a quick process. There are some players that will sign early, but most will try and get the most they can and try to get teams in a bidding war. That takes time.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, he had financial limitations but not trade limitations. Unwillingness to part with minor league prospects has been, and will continue to be a problem for BC. They are coveted by Ben.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, he had financial limitations but not trade limitations. Unwillingness to part with minor league prospects has been, and will continue to be a problem for BC. They are coveted by Ben.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have financial limitations you have trade limitations...you have to pay the guys you trade for.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    You can respond in all your screennames, or just one to kinda sum it up. Whatever is best for you.

    I'm curious as to the name of the person who is in line for his job. The hatred, and time spent trying to get everyone to jump on board has to be for a reason. Has to be. Why not take this opportunity to plead your case for your GM?

    [/QUOTE]

    Pikesaysthis.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Losers who call female posters men because they can't tell the difference between men and women". Looking forward to your contributions on that one.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    Don't you love the "get a deal done whatever the deal" crowd? Doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense as to years or salary or who they have to give up, they just want to think they got someone. You gotta laugh.

    You would think that watching some of our ex-players excel after they were traded would make people a little more hesitant. Or maybe the fact that some of our biggest trades didn't work out. Or maybe the fact that a player has to be a good fit for a particular team before they give up players for him. Or maybe even the fact that this season doesn't have alot of great candidates to trade for. Nope, all trades are somehow missed trades for the Sox.

    I don't believe that they're all just Sox fans who are "concerned" about the team. It's just too ridiculous. It really seems more about trying to get Sox fans upset about things we "supposedly" missed out on. It's nice to see fans who aren't buying into the propaganda going around here. Hopefully, these "fans" only stay where it works for them.

    And anyone that isn't already exhausted trying to placate Pumpsie with his constant complaints about everything should ask themselves if it's really possible, or is that just his gig here.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You can respond in all your screennames, or just one to kinda sum it up. Whatever is best for you.

    I'm curious as to the name of the person who is in line for his job. The hatred, and time spent trying to get everyone to jump on board has to be for a reason. Has to be. Why not take this opportunity to plead your case for your GM?

    [/QUOTE]

    Kim - some spout the negative, no matter what is going on.  It speaks to a lack of character as fans.  We have heard many gripe about the lack of character the team members have had, but have't applied it to their own behavior. 

    I realize these are trying times, at the best they are uncharted, but that doesn't give lisence to be so critical as to be boorish.  I know folk s take the position it's their right both in free speech and as fans.  But it never proves they are handling the moment well, nor for that matter, making the point they have character.

    I admit I am ignorant as to the best moves to be made, but I am never pleased with my team's fans being boors.  I grew up thinking that was the bailywick of the fans from a team in the Bronx.  Not all of them, but certainly it was their hallmark.  I am saddened to have seen that attitude grow in the Red Sox Nation.   Win, loose or boo.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey, Yaz. Good to see you. I think this board, advertised at the games, attracts people. Not always with the best interest of the team in mind. I'm not saying posters can't complain, but when the complaining never ends and it doesn't matter what it's about then you have to ask what's going on here. Some of the biggest targets have been removed from the team, and now they're complaining because we aren't signing contracts to get more that they can eventually complain about. lol

    I truly believe some of the "fans" here need to add more big contracts that they can complain about, or else what would that have to do? :)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He had all of last year and failed miserably. He did nothing at the TD when the Sox still had an opportunity to make the PS.

    He has had nearly one month to beef up the rotation with some good pitchers in the FA pool and has done nothing except sign a back-up catcher.

    [/QUOTE]Has any team signed a free agent pitcher this off season?


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    Its fitting with Ben about to hire a hitting coach and everyone is making deals. Wasn't Scitt Fletcher one of the worst trades the Red Sox ever made involving Jamie Moyer ?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Look over the deals he has made last season and they have been lopsided in favor of the team he traded with. Bailey, Sweeney for Reddick, Youkillis for Stewart and Lillibridge, Theo  compensation for a pitcher who needed arm surgery, Cooke who was horrendous, decided to make Bard a starter and may have ruined him. I am not impressed at all.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Look over the deals he has made last season and they have been lopsided in favor of the team he traded with. Bailey, Sweeney for Reddick, Youkillis for Stewart and Lillibridge, Theo  compensation for a pitcher who needed arm surgery, Cooke who was horrendous, decided to make Bard a starter and may have ruined him. I am not impressed at all.

    [/QUOTE]

    Taking an objective view the team has steadily deteriorated since BC was promoted.  Some may argue that isn't his fault.  Maybe so.  This year will be his chance. The team can't get any worse,  or can it?  What will be the benchmark for success?  Making the playoffs would be one.  That is not likely.If the team breaks 500 would that be another?  

    In my view, the team as it is presently constituted is unlikely to win 80 games.  If the team does break 80 , I'll say Ben had a fair year, worthy of another  chance.  If the team doesn't break 80, I'd  fire him.  Why, because given the payroll flexibility 80 wins is a reasonable goal for a team.  BTW I don't think Ben's team will win 80 games.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The bottom line is he was the GM immediately before last season. Our pitching has deteriorated nearly every year since 2007, and he made some huge boners  by signing Lackey, Beckett, and many others to long term contracts. I think he was a very mediocre GM; below average.

    The bottom line is that he had one bad month in 8 years, won 2 WCS and was in the ALCS 4x.  As soon as he left, the place fell apart.  He's been the most successful GM in BB since he was hired, was voted GM of the decade by SI, and was hired by Chicago as the highest paid executaive in BB.

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    Yeah, he was wonderful.I will give him 2007; even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. He also signed Beckett, Lackey, Lugo, Renteria, Matsusaka, Gagne, Crawford...need I go on? I can. I am not going to give him much credit for 2004; too many of the pieces were already in place then. And he was in charge over the the last five year when our pitching deteriorated consistently. He skipped town leaving the franchise with the bloated contracts of Beckett, Lackey, Crawford and Gonzalez and during his incompetent reign, despite having one of the highest payrolls in baseball to work with, his teams failed to make the playoffs three years in a row (yeah, he gets the blame for 2012 as well since this is the team he created and left for Cherington to deal with). He destroyed the pitching staff and depleted the farm system. Just because he is paid a lot of money does not mean he is competent. Look at some of his acquisitions as proof that highly paid people are not always good at what they do. This isn't even debatable; Epstein left this franchise in ruins.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree that many pieces were in place in 2004, but (disclaimer: I am not a Theo apologist) the moves he made, including adding Ortiz, Mueller, Millar and mostly, adding Keith The Real 2004 WS MVP Foulke, Curt Schilling and trading off Nomar were moves that simply were the difference bewteen ANOTHER Red Sox failure and the first WS win of our lifetimes.  He HAS to get credit for that.

    If Theo did one thing right, he understood the main reason for historic Red Sox playoff losses was no closer (after he got over the bullpen by committee/ Sun Yun KIm debacle) and had the relief pieces in place in 2004 and 2007.

    While everyone enjoys the luxury of 20/20 hindsight, I still think he did the right thing bringing in Gagne, to bolster that bullpen and take the pressure off Okajima.

    He accomplished some great things and made some big mistakes.

    I will agree that it seemed everything he did the last couple years was a disaster and he did leave the team in ruins. Im not going to ignore his successes, though.

     

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Look over the deals he has made last season and they have been lopsided in favor of the team he traded with. Bailey, Sweeney for Reddick, Youkillis for Stewart and Lillibridge, Theo  compensation for a pitcher who needed arm surgery, Cooke who was horrendous, decided to make Bard a starter and may have ruined him. I am not impressed at all.

    [/QUOTE]

    The team just lost Papelbon and the owners put a padlock on Ben's wallet. I will never understand the crying about the Bailey trade. The team was not convinced that Reddick could play, and he was hideous the second half of 2012. (did he finish hitting .240 or something?) He played a good OF and surprised with power. But the Sox desperately needed a closer and a fluke injury was the only thing keeping Bailey from possibly proving the deal was an excellent one in 2012.  And he clearly wasn't allowed to sign an expensive closer.

    I still think the deal wasnt a terrible idea given the circumstances, and again these people with their 20/20 hindsight just kill me.

    And of course Ben pulls off a franchise-saving deal by dumping malcontents and massive salary... and the owners get the credit.  Really?  Sox fans redefine the concept of unfairness.

    I dunno if Ben will be good, but I have not seen enough to tell yet.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: The I hate BC brigade even before he gets a chance to do anything

    In response to SoxFanInIL's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm giving him a chance, but let's not forget he also has been on the staff during the last couple of years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Look over the deals he has made last season and they have been lopsided in favor of the team he traded with. Bailey, Sweeney for Reddick, Youkillis for Stewart and Lillibridge, Theo  compensation for a pitcher who needed arm surgery, Cooke who was horrendous, decided to make Bard a starter and may have ruined him. I am not impressed at all.

    [/QUOTE]

    The team just lost Papelbon and the owners put a padlock on Ben's wallet. I will never understand the crying about the Bailey trade. The team was not convinced that Reddick could play, and he was hideous the second half of 2012. (did he finish hitting .240 or something?) He played a good OF and surprised with power. But the Sox desperately needed a closer and a fluke injury was the only thing keeping Bailey from possibly proving the deal was an excellent one in 2012.  And he clearly wasn't allowed to sign an expensive closer.

    I still think the deal wasnt a terrible idea given the circumstances, and again these people with their 20/20 hindsight just kill me.

    And of course Ben pulls off a franchise-saving deal by dumping malcontents and massive salary... and the owners get the credit.  Really?  Sox fans redefine the concept of unfairness.

    I dunno if Ben will be good, but I have not seen enough to tell yet.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bailey has been brittle his whole career and Sweeny never could hit. It was a bad deal, and I am not even sure he can cut it as a closer in the American League East. Ben got taken by Billy Beane. What scares me is what Beane saw in Reddick that Young Ben missed.

     

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