The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    As soon as I read the headline that finances would be a little tighter this year, I couldn't help but think of Moon's argument of fiscal problems coming up because of the high cost of Crawford's contract.  I know he incuded the lack of making other moves because of that.  It seems that the eagle has landed. 

    When coupled with the deal made with Adrian, which is an excellent one, and the one for Lackey .... which has not been so good, the finances have to have come up a little short.

    I still like Carl  and am glad we have him.  I'm not turning my back on him.  I'm just pointing out the realistic connection Moon made.  

    Credibility, once again, seems to be on his side.

     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    In Response to The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight:
    [QUOTE]As soon as I read the headline that finances would be a little tighter this year, I couldn't help but think of Moon's argument of fiscal problems coming up because of the high cost of Crawford's contract.  I know he incuded the lack of making other moves because of that.  It seems that the eagle has landed.  When coupled with the deal made with Adrian, which is an excellent one, and the one for Lackey .... which has not been so good, the finances have to have come up a little short. I still like Carl  and am glad we have him.  I'm not turning my back on him.  I'm just pointing out the realistic connection Moon made.   Credibility, once again, seems to be on his side.  
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]LIKE THE "BIG O" AND AMERICA, RED SOX NATION IS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE THE BIG SPENDING LIKE DRUNKEN SAILORS HAS CAUGHT UP TO US.....   NOT ONLY THE SPENDING, BUT POOR RETURN ON THE STIMULUS & LONG TERM CONTRACTS !!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    any team that can spend 20 million for a thirty-something DH is not hurting...the Sox are rolling in profit...they simply want to maintain their margins....money being tight is an illusion....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Red Sox has an operating loss in 2010. ( per Forbes MLB analysis).
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rgmfick. Show rgmfick's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    I read fans who say the Red Sox spent way too much money on JD Drew, DiceK, John Lackey, Mike Cameron, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett.  Then I read from the same fandom that the Red Sox did not spend to bid on a pitcher like Yu Darvish and have not spent and traded smartly on players like Cuddyer and Willingham, just as examples.  Meanwhile, it looks like the Red Sox have spent smartly on developing the farm system and drafting prospects.  The Red Sox have a strong combination players developed in the organization like Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Reddick, Kalish, Lavarnway, Lester, Buccholz, Papelbon (who certainly proved a good investment before FA), Bard etc. etc. Most other cities would love to have the home team have such success, to have won 2 World Championships and to have spent a great deal of money to do so.  If the 2012 Season opened tomorrow, the Red Sox would have a chance to win the whole thing again, so would the Yankees, the Rays, the Rangers, the Angels, the Phillies, etc. but when you think about it, our home team is in a pretty elite class, and whatever the case, we fans still want the team to spend smartly.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    In Response to Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight : and of course ( when convenient)  pike  believes everything he reads interesting how they immediately went after a very expensive agon & crawford right after '' operating loss in 2010'' so how much did nesn lose
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    If the choice is between the educated professionals at a reputable magazine like Forbes, that employs hundreds of brilliant accountants and economists and does such analysis of MLB baseball finances by team on an annual basis, and Joe Sixpack who sits in his armchair and can't balance his household budget - I'll base my opinions on Forbes. You, of course, are free to ignore the facts and opine based on your hunches.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Georom did not mention NESN. I was responding to what Georom said which was wrong. Please try to keep up and stay on the topic. Perhaps you would like to start another thread that compares the revenues from YES vs. those of NESN. You won't because you know that I have those facts available also and you know how lopsided the comparison is.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Pike...cut the nonsense..The Sox are one of the most lucrative sports franchises on the planet....once again your cherry picking of facts is pathetic...

    btw have you apologized yet for lying about Papi just kidding when he barged into Tito's press conference?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Its nice SinceYaz would not turn his back on a single Red Sox player, not ever. All fine. Not I. I have a list and am not going to sugar coat the truth.

    I think I can still hear SinceYaz screaming "Roger is not in the twighlight of his career."
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Yankee Global Enterprises is a three-engine money-making machine. The baseball team generated $325 million in revenue from regular-season tickets and luxury suites in 2010. The YES Network, the team's 34%-owned regional sports channel, is the most profitable RSN in the country and had over $400 million in revenue last year. The Yankees own a stake in Legends Hospitality Management, which manages stadiums, and generates $25 million in operating income. The enterprise value for the Yankees, YES and Legends is $5.1 billion. Although highly leveraged with $1.6 billion in debt (including Yankee Stadium's PILOT bonds), the team's enormous cash flow has easily covered the $64 million in stadium debt service payments.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight




             2011                                 Yankees                      Red Sox

     Total Revenue                     $427 mil.                       272

    Gate Receipts                        300                            176

    Op. Income                             25.7                            -1.1

    Player Exp.                           226                             187

    Debt/Valuation                         4%                               26%
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_New-York-Yankees_334613.html
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    It's easy for some to just say, "Henry! Open your wallet!"

    Yes, that is a simple solution, but not a likely one.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rgmfick. Show rgmfick's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Financial comparison between the Yankees and the Red Sox very interesting.  The most obvious conclusion is that the Red Sox cannot afford to make too many mistakes as the Yankees might.  e.g. Edgar Renteria, Matt Clement, Julio Lugo etc.  Think it also strengthens the philosopy of investing within the organization with smart drafting and development.  Trading players from within usually pays greater dividends than signing free agents.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    New York is the top DMA in the country, with nearly 7.5 million total homes. Boston has 2.4 million.

     “The economy of the New York market is so much greater than Boston. That’s why the Yankees can have a bigger payroll.”

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    In Response to Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight:
    [QUOTE]It's easy for some to just say, "Henry! Open your wallet!" Yes, that is a simple solution, but not a likely one.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    ...and that's exactly what Henry did the last few years and all the whining, second guessers are now saying they didn't spend it wisely...in some cases, that is true, but did those same posters (ones who don't think every move the Sox make is a bad move) complain about the Sox spending on players like Dice-K, Lackey, Crawford, etc. etc. when the deals went down?

    These are likely the same posters whining now that the Sox didn't chase Darvish, Buerhle, Cuddyer, etc. etc.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    In Response to Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight:
    [QUOTE]New York is the top DMA in the country, with nearly 7.5 million total homes. Boston has 2.4 million.  “The economy of the New York market is so much greater than Boston. That’s why the Yankees can have a bigger payroll.”
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    OMG. Are you now explaining yourself to Zac? Zac doesn't care about the Sox. He's only here to "filter" the board of any naysayers against the Yankees. He'll be happy to google whatever you're talking about, or add a tweet someone said. He's the most transparent poster on this board.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Zac to Georom.
    Georom to Zac.

    "My forum buddy, right or wrong, my forum buddy"

    The old boys fraternity is alive and well on the BDC forum.

    Where is Nagy?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    In Response to Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight:
    [QUOTE]Zac to Georom. Georom to Zac. "My forum buddy, right or wrong, my forum buddy" The old boys fraternity is alive and well on the BDC forum. Where is Nagy?
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]
    He's still sick from the worms.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    The Red Sox are an extremely profitable organization, and anyone arguing otherwise is a fool or a liar. And, like all businesses, there are a lot of creative ways to expense items/minimize earnings to mitigate taxes. Do you really think all of those blockbuster Hollywood movies showing minimal profit or even a loss, actually means no money was made? GE paid zero dollars in US taxes last year, creatively claiming to have lost 400 million dollars. Anyone buying that gibberish? ROFL! Why stay in a losing enterprise then? No...no matter how Uticaclub and others try to spin it, in an apparent effort to save John Henry from being pressured to spend money, the Red Sox are doing quite well. There was an advertisement rate hit to NESN in 2009+2010, but it's far better now. Just as ALL companies existing in a global downturn need to look for ways to increase productivity, I don't doubt that NESN+the Red Sox top to bottom needs to improve theirs. But you don't mess with the engine that drives it all...the team on the field. THAT would be slaying the proverbial golden goose.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    ...and that's exactly what Henry did the last few years and all the whining, second guessers are now saying they didn't spend it wisely...in some cases, that is true, but did those same posters (ones who don't think every move the Sox make is a bad move) complain about the Sox spending on players like Dice-K, Lackey, Crawford, etc. etc. when the deals went down?

    These are likely the same posters whining now that the Sox didn't chase Darvish, Buerhle, Cuddyer, etc. etc.

    The other point missed by many posters is that although Henry has opened his wallet in the past, he has always kept the Sox pretty close to the Luxury Tax threshold limit. He appears to view paying a high luxury tax as a waist of resources. NOw, many posters not only expect him to overpay for questionable 2012 free agents, but then on top of that pay a huge tax on their contracts. 

    Folks, I am not crying poverty here. I know we have been the second highest payroll for years. I know other team's fans must be laughing at some of us Sox fans. Rightfully so. My point has been that we have stayed near the cap, and I predicted we would probably stay near it again for 2012. That's why I "blew the whistle" after the CC signing and AGon extension.  I said the "CC contract would cripple us for 7 years", not because I projected poor results from CC. On the contrary, I stated that even if CC had 7 years identical to his career high 2010 season, it was still a $50M overpay.  That's basically about $8M a year times 7, if he produces at top form. We are seeing now, how $8M could make a world of difference now, let alone $21M. When posters quoted salries we were losing over the next few years, they failed to account for extensions, large arb raises, and trades for expensive players that were bound to occur after the CC signing.

    Again folks, Henry is not being cheap or crying povery. He already spent huge for 2012 and beyong when he extended AGon after the 2011 season started. That was his big 2012 move, that he smartly made a year early. The Buch extension also put a dent into the cap. Doe sanybody think we shouldn't have extended AGon or Buch? Those posters should view those 2 moves as our big 2011-2012 winter moves, even though they happened earlier in the year. Those two raises in average anual salary (plus bonus) that count towards the luxury tax limit ate up all of the JD Drew contract lost and then some.

    There are some differences in opinion over exactly how much we can spend this winter and season without going over the Luxury Limit (or at least not by much), but after we sign all our arb players, there really is not much left over for luxuries like Beltran or any other position player with a high salary. The money should be spent on upgrading our staff. I am not assuming that Beckett, Lester, and Buch are all going to get 33 starts and be strong starters all year, but even if they do, we can not win it all with what we have right now, unless some very unexpected thigs happen. I'm not betting on Jenks to be a great closer, or Bard and Aceves to win 15-16 games each, or for Douby or Taz to break out, or Albers, Atchison, Morales, and Bowden to provide excellent set-up work. Almost every cent should be spent on the staff. To me, even the relatively low cost signings like Shoppach and Punto were questionable. We could have saved almost $2M for the satff by using Lava and Iggy instead. I'm not saying the deals were bad, and $2M doesn't get you much in terms of good pitching, but adding $2M to what we are already planning on spending on staff upgrades could be significant. 

    Let's see what happens over the next few days and weeks, but please don't say Henry (or Ben) has not spent enough on upgrading our team. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    Moon, I have to disagree about the Punto signing.  If it lets Iggy stay in AAA getting everyday AB's, then it's worth it.  If they wanted to play Iggy at the MLB level, then they should have declined Scoot's option.  There's no significant difference between what Lowrie would have made and what Punto is making, and Punto will be cheaper than Lowrie for 2013.

    While I prefer to wait and see how the the entire off season plays out, right now I'm not a fan of the Shoppach signing as I would also prefer to have Lava starting ~80 games at catcher while learning the staff and getting occasional AB's at DH should Ortiz revert to his career averages against LHP's.  This would also help Salty stay fresh later in the season.  I'm curious to see if Salty will be involved in a trade before the season starts, in which case the Shoppach signing would make more sense, especially if Salty can help bring in another solid pen arm to replace one of Bard/Aceves (I don't think both will end up in the rotation).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Moon Rises, Ben Says Moeny is Tight

    The Red Sox are an extremely profitable organization, and anyone arguing otherwise is a fool or a liar. And, like all businesses, there are a lot of creative ways to expense items/minimize earnings to mitigate taxes. Do you really think all of those blockbuster Hollywood movies showing minimal profit or even a loss, actually means no money was made? GE paid zero dollars in US taxes last year, creatively claiming to have lost 400 million dollars. Anyone buying that gibberish? ROFL! Why stay in a losing enterprise then? No...no matter how Uticaclub and others try to spin it, in an apparent effort to save John Henry from being pressured to spend money, the Red Sox are doing quite well. There was an advertisement rate hit to NESN in 2009+2010, but it's far better now. Just as ALL companies existing in a global downturn need to look for ways to increase productivity, I don't doubt that NESN+the Red Sox top to bottom needs to improve theirs. But you don't mess with the engine that drives it all...the team on the field. THAT would be slaying the proverbial golden goose.

    I agree that Henry did not lose money in 2010 with the Sox. There are hidden profits everywhere. The real money is actually made in the increasing value of the Sox. Look at what the Astros owner just made by selling a team that barely made money on paper. That's the big money.

    However, if you look at the market share the Sox have, Henry probably spends more money in relation to Boston's percent market share than any other owner. If every owner spent "their share", the price of free agency would skyrocket even beyond the absurdity of this years lame FA class. I am glad Henry did not overpay for these highly questionable FAs.

    Henry is going to continue to ake very nice profits, when he sell the team he will ake a killing, and he will continue to spen near the luxury tax limit every year. I'm happy that we are near the top spenders rather than near the bottom.

    I'm happy we have a "golden goose" for an owner, and not tin chicken.
     

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