Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roaddogg1959. Show Roaddogg1959's posts

    Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Why is it that every free agent Theo signs sucks when they get to Boston? I mean I feel bad for theo they just don't pan out. He could sign Holliday or Cliff Lee and if they went to Boston they would pitch like Lackey or Dice K. It's unreal for this to always happen.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roaddogg1959. Show Roaddogg1959's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Thats 4 players and Ortiz was released by minnesota so thats 3 . I'm not bashing theo I liked the Crawford signing and a lot of the other signings he just has bad luck they just underachieve and usually by a lot. He could of brought Texiera in here and he would of responded like Marabelli he has no luck.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mac24. Show mac24's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    A little overboard I think?

    Mike Timlin
    Bill Mueller
    David Ortiz
    Kevin Millar

    A lot of moves seemed like a good choice at the time. It's always easy to sit back AFTER THE FACT and say well, he should've done this or that. Truth is Epstein is very good at what he does. Sorry, can't win the lottery with every ticket you buy.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Poor poor Theo, signed lackey, drew and lugo after ALL of redsox nation told him not too. GIVE ME A BREAK
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    FIRE THEO!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Thats 4 players and Ortiz was released by minnesota so thats 3 .
    Posted by Roaddogg1959[/QUOTE]

    What?  You do realize that when a player is released they become a free agent right?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Also I would say that JD Drew did what they expected him to do.  Scutaro also worked out well last year, although I'm still not sure he was worth losing the draft pick it was just a 3rd rounder.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

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    JD Drew???? He gets paid superstar dollars for lousy production (when he plays).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulvcassidyjr. Show paulvcassidyjr's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Theo is a good GM for building up the farm or thru the draft.  But his track record for big $$ free agents is awful:

    Good: Beltre
    Bad: Clement,Cameron,Lugo,Renteria,Lackey,Dice,Smoltz
    OK: JD
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]JD Drew???? He gets paid superstar dollars for lousy production (when he plays).
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    fangraphs has him valued at $57.1M since the start of his deal with Boston.  Figure ~ $8M of production this year assuming some decline and and you only have a FA premium of ~$5M.

    I'm not saying it was a great signing, but he has done what the FO expected him to do.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Why is it that every free agent Theo signs sucks when they get to Boston? I mean I feel bad for theo they just don't pan out. He could sign Holliday or Cliff Lee and if they went to Boston they would pitch like Lackey or Dice K. It's unreal for this to always happen.
    Posted by Roaddogg1959[/QUOTE]

    Here's a thought: Try offering a frame of reference.
    Look at Theo's track record of all his FA signings since becoming a GM.
    Not just the ones that agitate you.

    Then look at all the FA signing of all other current GM's.
    Then compare.
    Of course, starting a thread like this is a nice way of getting others to research it for you.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]JD Drew???? He gets paid superstar dollars for lousy production (when he plays).
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]
     He's played as often as Youk since they've been teammates.

    And Drew did have a medicore year last year, he has ranked high among RFers during his time in Boston. Stick you head in the sand and ignore that if you'd like but that doesn't make it less true, even if we all think he is a bit overpaid.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    m
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChrisHouse. Show ChrisHouse's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    There certainly have been bad contracts given to American pitchers in recent years.

    The Giants signed Barry Zito to a seven-year, $126 million deal in December 2006, and he has been a bust. Zito is 40-58 with a 4.47 ERA for them.

    In fact, the Sox passed on the opportunity to sign Zito, who was the hottest major league free agent at the time. The lefthander had a 102-63 record and had won the 2002 American League Cy Young Award, so the Giants felt safe signing him.

    They had been able to watch him closely in nearby Oakland, and the theory was that in the National League, he’d be even better because there is no DH.

    The NL general manager quoted earlier reasons that Zito and Matsuzaka are actually very similar in that they are capable of pitching very well in stretches, but all of a sudden, there’s a loss of rhythm, or concentration, or something bad happens.

    Minaya, too, probably wishes he had one or two contracts back. Embattled lefthander Oliver Perez signed a three-year, $36 million deal in February 2009 and was released by the Mets before this season.

    Minaya also signed Pedro Martinez away from the Red Sox in 2005, giving him a four-year deal worth $52 million. At the time it seemed like a coup. But the Sox had decided that Martinez’s shoulder would not hold up, and they were right.

    Martinez had a very good first year — 15-8 with a 2.82 ERA in 31 starts — but he made only 48 more starts for the remainder of the contract and finished his Mets career 32-23 with a 3.88 ERA in 79 starts.

    One of the classic worsts was lefthander Mike Hampton, whom the Colorado Rockies signed in December 2000 to an eight-year, $121 million deal. He lasted only two years in Colorado, putting up ERAs of 5.41 and 6.15, before being traded. Suffice to say, he never lived up to the billing.

    Right there with Hampton was the Dodgers’ signing of righthander Kevin Brown to a seven-year, $105 million deal in December 1998. Brown went 58-32 with a 2.83 ERA as a Dodger, but in 2001 and 2002, he made a combined 37 starts.

    After a good year in 2003 (14-9, 2.39), Brown was traded to the Yankees, who paid him the remaining $31.4 million for a 14-13 record and a 4.95 ERA in 35 total starts.

    The Yankees were also burned by Carl Pavano, who signed a four-year, $39.9 million deal in December 2004 but wound up making only 26 starts for them, going 9-8 with a 5.00 ERA. His Yankee career was marred with controversy, injury, and underachievement, and from a team standpoint, his may be one of the worst contracts ever signed.

    While pitching contracts are risky, long-term deals for position players can also haunt you. The Cubs gave Alfonso Soriano an eight-year deal for $136 million, and it has been a weight around their neck. Toronto was fortunate to get out from under the seven-year, $126 million deal it gave Vernon Wells by trading him to the Angels in the offseason.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    I wish there was an "I hate Theo and I hate Tito" thread where fans who felt that way could all hang out on.  Then they wouldn't have to be in so many other threads.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Winning.TigerBlood. Show Winning.TigerBlood's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]A little overboard I think? Mike Timlin Bill Mueller David Ortiz Kevin Millar A lot of moves seemed like a good choice at the time. It's always easy to sit back AFTER THE FACT and say well, he should've done this or that. Truth is Epstein is very good at what he does. Sorry, can't win the lottery with every ticket you buy.
    Posted by mac24[/QUOTE]

    What an undigestible piece of pretzel logic you just puked up.

    When the player works out, it's OK "after the fact", but when the move tanks, it's not?  What color is the sky in your fabtasy world?  Try this on for size:

    Lugo - $36M bust and RS ate the contract
    Renteria - $40M bust and RS at the contract
    Daisucko - $105M bust and RS will soon eat the contract
    Lackey - $85M bust and RS are currently eating the contract
    CrAWFUL - $140M bust in-process
    Nancy Drew - $70M bust and you've been choking it down for 5 years
    DL Cameron - $14M bust, pass the catsup

    That's $500M of busts. 

    He lucked out with Ortiz, cause Papi found manROID's pill jar after he got to Boston.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Winning.TigerBlood. Show Winning.TigerBlood's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    ChrisHouse:

    (The Yankees were also burned by Carl Pavano, who signed a four-year, $39.9 million deal in December 2004 but wound up making only 26 starts for them, going 9-8 with a 5.00 ERA. His Yankee career was marred with controversy, injury, and underachievement, and from a team standpoint, his may be one of the worst contracts ever signed.)

    Actually, I think Kei Igawa ($50M, maybe 2 MLB wins?) makes Pavano look like Cy Young.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Winning.TigerBlood. Show Winning.TigerBlood's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Guts to trade Nomar?

    Comical.

    Nomar quit on the team in plain sight, only he was a little less obvious about it than ManROID.

    Theo had no choice.  It wasn't the least bit "courageous".

    Actually, the 4 cited at the beginning of this thread are virtually his only real success.

    But who cares, Blame it on Fatty Bill James.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    Theo has brought 2 WS rings to this club since becoming GM.  Who has done better?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Winning.TigerBlood. Show Winning.TigerBlood's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Theo has brought 2 WS rings to this club since becoming GM.  Who has done better?
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    Is that the measure?

    I guess the standards WERE pretty low during the OH FOR 86 years....

    It was only a few years ago that Loopy Lucchino was weeping about the evil empire, and what an unfair advantage the Yankees had.  Now I can show you a half-billion of Theo's marginal to wasted "investments" and the team is (at least temporarily) crushed under the weight of (unrealistic) expectations

    Say what you want, but it ain't so easy being Yankees Lite
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    I think the idea of attributing what happens with FA signings to "luck" goes against everything that would make a good manager, in any profession.  Theo is paid to have foresight and if someone doesn't work out, it isn't luck it was poor work, just like Ortiz (definitely a FA signing!!) was good work.  But to say Smoltz or Dice-K or Lugo was bad luck is false, they were bad decisions.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Theo and His bad luck with Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]There certainly have been bad contracts given to American pitchers in recent years. The Giants signed Barry Zito to a seven-year, $126 million deal in December 2006, and he has been a bust. Zito is 40-58 with a 4.47 ERA for them. In fact, the Sox passed on the opportunity to sign Zito, who was the hottest major league free agent at the time. The lefthander had a 102-63 record and had won the 2002 American League Cy Young Award, so the Giants felt safe signing him. They had been able to watch him closely in nearby Oakland, and the theory was that in the National League, he’d be even better because there is no DH. The NL general manager quoted earlier reasons that Zito and Matsuzaka are actually very similar in that they are capable of pitching very well in stretches, but all of a sudden, there’s a loss of rhythm, or concentration, or something bad happens. Minaya, too, probably wishes he had one or two contracts back. Embattled lefthander Oliver Perez signed a three-year, $36 million deal in February 2009 and was released by the Mets before this season. Minaya also signed Pedro Martinez away from the Red Sox in 2005, giving him a four-year deal worth $52 million. At the time it seemed like a coup. But the Sox had decided that Martinez’s shoulder would not hold up, and they were right. Martinez had a very good first year — 15-8 with a 2.82 ERA in 31 starts — but he made only 48 more starts for the remainder of the contract and finished his Mets career 32-23 with a 3.88 ERA in 79 starts. One of the classic worsts was lefthander Mike Hampton, whom the Colorado Rockies signed in December 2000 to an eight-year, $121 million deal. He lasted only two years in Colorado, putting up ERAs of 5.41 and 6.15, before being traded. Suffice to say, he never lived up to the billing. Right there with Hampton was the Dodgers’ signing of righthander Kevin Brown to a seven-year, $105 million deal in December 1998. Brown went 58-32 with a 2.83 ERA as a Dodger, but in 2001 and 2002, he made a combined 37 starts. After a good year in 2003 (14-9, 2.39), Brown was traded to the Yankees, who paid him the remaining $31.4 million for a 14-13 record and a 4.95 ERA in 35 total starts. The Yankees were also burned by Carl Pavano, who signed a four-year, $39.9 million deal in December 2004 but wound up making only 26 starts for them, going 9-8 with a 5.00 ERA. His Yankee career was marred with controversy, injury, and underachievement, and from a team standpoint, his may be one of the worst contracts ever signed. While pitching contracts are risky, long-term deals for position players can also haunt you. The Cubs gave Alfonso Soriano an eight-year deal for $136 million, and it has been a weight around their neck. Toronto was fortunate to get out from under the seven-year, $126 million deal it gave Vernon Wells by trading him to the Angels in the offseason.
    Posted by ChrisHouse[/QUOTE]
     
    Good post.
    It covers the ground the OP should have researched.
     

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