Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : Buchholz hadn't pitched since last June and he is coming off back surgery.  His last 2 starts have been "encouraging" at worst.  I personally think Buchholz has better stuff than Garza, but that's obviously debatable.  Your opening post about trading Buchholz, Youk, Salty and prospects for Garza was a little crazy, though.
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    jasko,

    Have you ever noticed how long fans have made excuses for these guys?

    ... Josh and Jon have been inconsistent for a long time.
    ... Lackey was a disaster yet there were nothing but excuses for him.  Will it change after surgery if he stinks because now he needs more conditioning?  Dice has a better chance than Lackey of being an effective pitcher here again. 
    ... Doubront has been a pleasant surprise "not great" but decent control and effectiveness for a young starter like Bard should have.  
    ... Bard "like Miller" last season has no command whatsoever of the strike zone.  
    ... Wake was hurting the team, yet fans still wanted him back.
    ... Now its Clay because he had one decent year plus before going on the DL.  He pitched off the mound late last season and had all of ST and the first 8 games this year to get back into shape.  Clay is 27 "not 42" and didn't have TJ surgery either so I don't buy the excuses sorry.

    At this point even Miller looks to have more command and might deserve another start until Dice returns.  Maybe its not Garza but I will say it until it happens and our team gets better. We need to break this staff up.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zack5042. Show zack5042's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : Doesn't eveveryone at times notin?   The bottom line is we need pitchers who can keep us in a game.  Not guys who have little command who put us behind early, or can't keep us close enough to win.  Our pen has looked better than our starting rotation.  ... Bard is last years Miller ... Clay is last years Lackey ... Dice will hopefully give us a spark but its tough to say ... Josh and Lester can't put back to back efforts together ... Doub gets the most credit for being much better than Weiland or Wake Getting our hitters back won't get us over the top with our present staff.  Just like Ross didn't make our RF better like some predicted.  Reddick was a much better all round player and much younger.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    Seriously? Do you even know what you're talking about?
    Bard might be last years miller and we all know he needs to return to the pen.
    Clay, who is coming back from an injury, doesn't have all of his command back yet and has been just as good or better than Garza through his career.
    Josh beckett had 4 straight quality starts before he had a bad start and Lester has given up 1 er in his last 14 innings. So I'm pretty sure they both have strung back to back good starts.
    As for Ross... Did you forget he was supposed to be a platoon player? Him and Sweeney were supposed to share time not both be starters. So... No Ross himself wasn't supposed to improve right field, which he is doing anyways, but him and Sweeney were. Unfortunately, Ellsbury went down and Crawford was on the DL longer then expected... Please... PLEASE pay attention a little.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : Seriously? Do you even know what you're talking about? Bard might be last years miller and we all know he needs to return to the pen. Clay, who is coming back from an injury, doesn't have all of his command back yet and has been just as good or better than Garza through his career. Josh beckett had 4 straight quality starts before he had a bad start and Lester has given up 1 er in his last 14 innings. So I'm pretty sure they both have strung back to back good starts. As for Ross... Did you forget he was supposed to be a platoon player? Him and Sweeney were supposed to share time not both be starters. So... No Ross himself wasn't supposed to improve right field, which he is doing anyways, but him and Sweeney were. Unfortunately, Ellsbury went down and Crawford was on the DL longer then expected... Please... PLEASE pay attention a little.
    Posted by zack5042[/QUOTE]

    #1 Clay has had a Garza type career?  No, Clay is one year younger, only had a little over a year of decent stuff with a much better lineup behind him which contributed to many of his wins.  Clay has also only pitched 86 games, half of Matts career and a lot less "big game" performances.

    #2 No, I didn't forget Ross is a platoon guy.  All I said was he wouldn't hit any better at Fenway and isn't as good as Reddick could be.  Very True, especially if Josh continues to hit LH and RH pitching while we still need to platoon guys in RF for any kind of production.

    #3 Bard is "last years Miller" at this point.  A couple very good pitches but no command of them.  Yes he needs to return to the pen for now anyway.

    Lastly, I think guys like Barnes, Lav, Middy and Bogaerts could have better careers than Clay, Renaudo, Youk, Salty and Iggy so at least our future looks brighter than the present. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : The Cubs stink, but that's just one+ years.  He didn't win an awful lot with TB either, and they were just as good as us.  We had better hitting, but they also had a much better defense and an easier park to pitch in.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Joe, I'm not a huge fan of Clay sorry.  I think "like Beckett and Lackey" he may think hes better than most of us believe.  Clay is almost 28 and has only pitched in 86 games so there is still plenty of time to prove himself I agree.  However, Clay's record is the only thing better than Garza in my opinion.  I'm not saying Garza is that guy, there are others like Marcum, McCarthy or even A. Sanchez who could be available and fit that bill.

    I say we need to keep either Beckett or Clay and try our best to dump Lackey. Adding a new "steadying influence" and breaking up this Texas connection may be just what this team needs to solidify the staff.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : Doesn't eveveryone at times notin?   The bottom line is we need pitchers who can keep us in a game.  Not guys who have little command who put us behind early, or can't keep us close enough to win.  Our pen has looked better than our starting rotation.  ... Bard is last years Miller ... Clay is last years Lackey ... Dice will hopefully give us a spark but its tough to say ... Josh and Lester can't put back to back efforts together ... Doub gets the most credit for being much better than Weiland or Wake Getting our hitters back won't get us over the top with our present staff.  Just like Ross didn't make our RF better like some predicted.  Reddick was a much better all round player and much younger.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    If you think that way, at least try and be realisitic. The cubs are not giving away Garza, period.

    Whether or not they ever want Saltalamacchia remains to be seen, but the bottom line is you are not going to build a pacakge around a top tier starter using a guy who was acquired for an A-ball pitcher.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    Whether or not they [Cubs] ever want Saltalamacchia remains to be seen, but the bottom line is you are not going to build a pacakge around a top tier starter using a guy who was acquired for an A-ball pitcher.

    I agree, but Salty could be part of a deal, maybe 3 of these guys with Salty:

    Ranaudo
    Iglesias
    Anderson 
    Coyle
    Hassan


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : If you think that way, at least try and be realisitic. The cubs are not giving away Garza, period. Whether or not they ever want Saltalamacchia remains to be seen, but the bottom line is you are not going to build a pacakge around a top tier starter using a guy who was acquired for an A-ball pitcher.
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    You will probably never see Larry, Ben or John doing business with Theo again anyway.  It will be an interesting thing to watch over the years.  The way Salty is hitting right now, there could be quite a few suiters for his services.  Whether it be Garza, Sanchez, McCarthy, Marcum or another dependable arm I still think we need one.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : You will probably never see Larry, Ben or John doing business with Theo again anyway.  It will be an interesting thing to watch over the years.  The way Salty is hitting right now, there could be quite a few suiters for his services.  Whether it be Garza, Sanchez, McCarthy, Marcum or another dependable arm I still think we need one.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, it's not like we're ever going to trade with the Cubs.  Too bad, because I'd like to trade for Byrd until Ells returns.  But since Ben do business with Theo....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching : If you think that way, at least try and be realisitic. The cubs are not giving away Garza, period. Whether or not they ever want Saltalamacchia remains to be seen, but the bottom line is you are not going to build a pacakge around a top tier starter using a guy who was acquired for an A-ball pitcher.
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Does it really matter who a guy was acquired for in the past?  The Blue Jays got Bautista for Robinzon Diaz, who signed a minor league deal with LAA this past winter.

    Would teams not offer anything significant for Bautista just because of who he was traded for in the past?  Obviously Salty will never be mistaken for Bautista, this is simply an example to show the flaw in your logic.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sev133. Show Sev133's posts

    Re: Theo needs a catcher, we need pitching

    only a little over a year of DECENT stuff?  Having a 2.33 era in the AL East(I believe it was the 2nd lowest era by a slight margin) while pitching a respectable 173 innings is decent?  Buch for Garza is comparable, but when you factor in the contracts like people have stated, I would rather see what a healthy Buch can do.  We know what Garza is and I do agree that he is a big game pitcher, and therefore would prob excell in a stadium like Fenway, but giving up on two guys(buch/salty) who seem like they are on the verge of continued success, isn't worth it IMO, nevermind adding in prospects and Youk.  However, sense the cubs won't be contending anytime soon, maybe we could trade Youk for some prosects and then turn around with the aquired prospects + our own prospects and trade them for Garza.  Might not be worth it unless we think we will contend this year or unless Garza would sign extension for reasonable price, which seems doubtful with the money thrown at pitchers these days.  Don't get me wrong I do like Garza and think Fenway would be the place to maximize his talents, as he always seems to pitch well in big games and Fenway can make you feel like every night is a big game assuming the sox team is competitive.
     

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