Re: Theo Thinks He Built The Boston Red Sox. Wrong, The Fans Did.
posted at 11/4/2011 9:07 AM EDT
In Response to Re: Theo Thinks He Built The Boston Red Sox. Wrong, The Fans Did.
[QUOTE]Here's where the choice has to be made; first was the "No Manny- no rings" nonsense, yet Manny was good for one year after leaving and that's it, to think that Manny would have made the difference in 2009 is stretching it, to suggest anything further is CRAZY. ... (Youk) And really, it's hard to give Manny all the credit anyway. 2007 was the worst year of his career at the time, yet the Sox won it all. However, they did not win it all during several seasons when he as far more productive. So how could it all be Manny? (notin) I was the author of the "No Manny- No Rings" thread as well as the "No Papi- No Rings" and "No VTek- No Rings" threads. From the very first page the statements were misunderstood, and hundreds of pages later until today nothing has changed. Saying "No Manny-No Rings" is not saying he was soley responsible for the Rings. It simply meant, we could not have won both rings without him (or Papi or VTek, the only two other significant players on both the 2004 and 2007 teams). It also did not imply that we could never win again, because he was traded. I'm not going to speculate that we would have or would not have won in 2009 had Manny hit like he did with LA after the deal: it's just way too much conjecture. While Manny's 2007 season was not great, he did a lot of little things in the playoffs that were crucial to our success (many were BBs -some with 2 outs- that set up Papi's big hits). I realize the argument could be made that with the $20M spent on Manny, had we not had him, we may have spent wisely and still won, but that too is conjecture. The fact remains, we could not have won both rings without Manny, Papi or VTek. That thread also attracted law and the whole "Pink Hat" rant. I used the term "Theo apologists" throughout the thread as well, and I still think Theo mishandled the "Manny situation" almost from day one. Near continous leaking of information to the media was not helpful in getting the most and best out of one of our most important players. I know Manny brought most of it all on himself, and I later apologized for my defensing of Manny - the person so strongly over those 1 1/2 to 2 years. He was a cheat and added a perception that our rings are tainted. The trade for J.Bay was a good deal, and we now have prospects for losing Bay, so the return is still in progress. I had issues with Theo, but still liked him. He had made some serious mistakes recently, and I understand why he left to seek a more powerful position. Overall, I think he did more positive than negative, but I can not say I am sorry to see him go.
Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
There was no need for that thread " No Manny, No Rings". Like you said other players were also instrumental in getting the Rings but that is not how the title of the thread was presented and perceived. If the thread was titled "No Manny, Tek, Papi, Etc., No Rings" then nobody would have responded to it since it was an obvious fact that it was a team effort. Such threads are non-controversial and don't last long.
By the way Manny apologized to the Boston fans, on his last trip to Fenway, for his actions that priompted the trade. He did not want to play for the two option years at $20 mil. per yr. ( violating a signed contract) and wanted to renegotiate for higher pay. He wanted the options torn up, had a tantrum when he couldn't get his own way, and forced a trade by pretending to be injured, refusing to play, and intentionally playing poorly.