Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to floridamike's comment:

    Yes it was your post i read sir!

    I think for the first time in a long time the red sox front office is back in power.

    They have sent a clear message to the team by the trade.

    If Ellsbury wants a big long term contract that's great! Good luck and by the way we traded you to minnesota for young studs!

    I like that type of message!


    Why would Minnesota trade "young studs" to Boston for Jacoby Ellsbury? That makes no sense on many levels, including that the Twins already have the league's fifth-rated centerfielder* under team control through 2014 at a fraction of Ellsbury's cost.

    That move would send Ellsbury and Boras the message that the Red Sox don't plan to be competitive any time soon.

    For what it's worth, the Red Sox have experienced a longer absence from the postseason than the Twins have.

    * Minnesota's Denard Span ranks fifth among American League centerfielders this season in Wins Above Replacement and is signed through 2014 with a team option for 2015.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    The fatal flaw here is that a team that is not in contention is not going to give you anyone of value for a one year rental of Ellsbury. Now , if you want to just give him away to spite Boras, you can do it , but that is not very smart.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    The fatal flaw here is that a team that is not in contention is not going to give you anyone of value for a one year rental of Ellsbury. Now , if you want to just give him away to spite Boras, you can do it , but that is not very smart.


    Teams give "value" for 2 month rental players of lesser value than Jacoby. Ellsbury offers a full season, and he has a sandwich draft pick attached as long as the team offers him $13M or so after next season. That alone has some high value.

    There are several contending teams that are weak in OF offense who will make substantial offers for Ellsbury. Non-contending teams will not. Three-way trades are possible.

    We should not give Jacoby away, but we can get more (for longer than 2013) in return via trade than through a draft pick.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    The problem with Jacoby Ellsbury is assessing his proper value in light of his widely fluctuating contributions over his five-plus seasons in the majors. Most would agree Ellsbury has value, but what value is the tougher question.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    A contender would do it.  But the earlier implication was that he could be traded to a weaker team as a form of punishment for not signing.  A weaker team/ non-contender would not give anything of value in return.  So , they cannot leverage Boras in that manner.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to hill55 comment:

    The problem with Jacoby Ellsbury is assessing his proper value in light of his widely fluctuating contributions over his five-plus seasons in the majors. Most would agree Ellsbury has value, but what value is the tougher question.



    Fact of the matter is that his "fluxuations" are due to injuries and not inconsistant performance...It's tough to stay in the groove when you can't swing the bat...So while I agree that accessing his value, due to his oft injured resume is the 20M dollar question. One that many teams will have pause while considering the merits of signing him. The reality is that when healthy, he is a prototypical leadoff hitter with some pop. One who plays a premium defensive position (CF), that also posses the ability to steal 60 bases. Who will be all of 30/31 years old after next season and still considered to be in his prime.

    Regarding his injury history, since neither are considered to be in the "chronic" classification (broken ribs in 2010 and a separated shoulder this season). AKA Jose Reyes who missed considerable time due to "chronic hamstring woes", still garnered an pretty sweet deal with the Marlins. Rather of the hustle, them's the breaks variety. Bottom line is if he comes back in 2013 and puts up a solid .300/.370/.430/.800 season with double digit hr and 50 steals...The suitors will line up at the door to shower him with cash. How much is market dependent to some degree. Trust me when Boras is negiotiating with the GM, Reyes and Crawfords moneys and performances will be part of his presentation...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55 comment:

    The problem with Jacoby Ellsbury is assessing his proper value in light of his widely fluctuating contributions over his five-plus seasons in the majors. Most would agree Ellsbury has value, but what value is the tougher question.



    Fact of the matter is that his "fluxuations" are due to injuries and not inconsistant performance...It's tough to stay in the groove when you can't swing the bat...So while I agree that accessing his value, due to his oft injured resume is the 20M dollar question. One that many teams will have pause while considering the merits of signing him. The reality is that when healthy, he is a prototypical leadoff hitter with some pop. One who plays a premium defensive position (CF), that also posses the ability to steal 60 bases. Who will be all of 30/31 years old after next season and still considered to be in his prime.

    Regarding his injury history, since neither are considered to be in the "chronic" classification (broken ribs in 2010 and a separated shoulder this season). AKA Jose Reyes who missed considerable time due to "chronic hamstring woes", still garnered an pretty sweet deal with the Marlins. Rather of the hustle, them's the breaks variety. Bottom line is if he comes back in 2013 and puts up a solid .300/.370/.430/.800 season with double digit hr and 50 steals...The suitors will line up at the door to shower him with cash. How much is market dependent to some degree. Trust me when Boras is negiotiating with the GM, Reyes and Crawfords moneys and performances will be part of his presentation...

     

    [/QUOTE]

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    The reality is that when healthy, he is a prototypical leadoff hitter with some pop.

    Bottom line is if he comes back in 2013 and puts up a solid .300/.370/.430/.800 season with double digit hr and 50 steals


    Since Ellsbury returned, healthy, this franchise player has posted the following numbers:

    2012      AB   217   BA  .267  OBP .310  SLG  .373  OPS .684

    Career                          .297  OBP .350  SLG .445  OPS .795                


    Good points. Those are franchise player numbers. His steals per season are also going up, as he gets older.




    No, actually you are counting the 30 PAs from before the injury.

    His numbers since the injury are not much better than the one's you posted but still ...

    .277/.312/.387/.699 in 202 PAs.


    He has done a bit better the last 2 weeks:

    .302/.315/.45/.730 in 54 PAs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    I remember there used to be a poster who was all about "career norms". I wonder what he would say about a guy who avergaes this...

    Per 162 games:


    .297  15  72  (108 runs, 41 2B+3Bs, 53 SBs)

    OBP .350
    SLG  .445
    OPS .795

    vs LH'd starter: .804
    vs RH'd starter: .791
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    The reality is that when healthy, he is a prototypical leadoff hitter with some pop.

    Bottom line is if he comes back in 2013 and puts up a solid .300/.370/.430/.800 season with double digit hr and 50 steals


    Since Ellsbury returned, healthy, this franchise player has posted the following numbers:

    2012      AB   217   BA  .267  OBP .310  SLG  .373  OPS .684

    Career                          .297  OBP .350  SLG .445  OPS .795                


    Good points. Those are franchise player numbers. His steals per season are also going up, as he gets older.



    No where in any of my post and certainly not in the one you responded to. Did I use the term "Franchise player" when descibing Ellsbury's talants or ability. Franchise player is a big jump from prototype leadoff man. Which in fact, is what he is...2011 showed that he has some pop, like it or not aside from the time he's spent on the DL he has perfromed at a high level and shown the ability to make adjustments from season to season. Fact of the matter is if he were to come back a post another .320-30-100 Rbi next season, along with stealing 50 bases and winning a gold glove. He would then put himself in the argument for being a franchise player. A distinction today he doesn't warrant...

    While I get that he's struggled since returning from the DL to post "career norm" numbers. 200 PA while not a small sample is for all intents is a 1/3rd of a season's worth of AB. Lets remember while on the DL with a separated shoulder, he couldn't swing a bat for almost two months and for all intents when he was then allowed to assume baseball activities. He was back to square one as in winter workout mode and has recently begun to pick it up.

    End of the day the kids a good ballplayer and your constant misrepresentation of his ability paints you as ignorant.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Leverage Boras & Ellsbury?

    In response to hill55 comment:

    The problem with Jacoby Ellsbury is assessing his proper value in light of his widely fluctuating contributions over his five-plus seasons in the majors. Most would agree Ellsbury has value, but what value is the tougher question.



    I agree hill, how do you determine the value of a guy who has a huge year like last season but can't stay off the DL, or put up consistent numbers?  Jacoby will be a tough call for teams as a FA unless he gets back on track and stays there.
     

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