TJ surgery for Lackey

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    TJ surgery for Lackey

    Morning all... OUCH!!...no 2012 for Lackey.....http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111025&content_id=25790664&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    Might be the best news for all parties...end of the day the guy did himself no favors trying to pitch with a bad wing and maybe a year away from having to deal with his detractors will allow him to comeback in 2013 and start anew...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Might be the best news for all parties...end of the day the guy did himself no favors trying to pitch with a bad wing and maybe a year away from having to deal with his detractors will allow him to comeback in 2013 and start anew...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Agree that it is good news for everyone involved.  I expect that he will be a much better pitcher after returning from the surgery. 
     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    Hey JETE why don't you grab another forum to post your Yankee garbage on?  "OUCH" ? really? Who freaking cares if this idiot misses all of 2012, you only wish Burnett needed TJ.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    and for you pinstrip dumb azz... take your cut and paste act and shove it.... we don't need it here.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    Good way to solve problem number 1, at least for two years.  Kind of like the Dice-K thing.

    So if you're a pitcher and you go Boston with a big fat contract and you can't get past the third inning, you get a year's vacation and then a "let's try it again,"


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Hey JETE why don't you grab another forum to post your Yankee garbage on?  "OUCH" ? really? Who freaking cares if this idiot misses all of 2012, you only wish Burnett needed TJ.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE] Rito'...don't know what's eating you, but i didn't mean ouch in terms of the Sox..just meant for him personally
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    sounded mocking to me... as a SOX fan I am 100% pleased that jerk won't be pitching in 2012.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]Might be the best news for all parties...end of the day the guy did himself no favors trying to pitch with a bad wing and maybe a year away from having to deal with his detractors will allow him to comeback in 2013 and start anew...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Lets hope Bean, it would certainly help as Dice K. may when he recovers.  Right now its the best thing our tean could hope for so lets go out and find a solid replacement.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    funny thing buritto, they guy is having the surgery done yet he had probably his best game when he pitched against the yankees. if his elbow was bothering him he sure didn't show it. however, with all that said, I have no problem not seeing his sour puss kissah next year either. and as for jetes, he's not busting on anybody man. I took it when he said "ouch" meaning that having elbow surgery is not too much fun to go through. he might be a yankee fan, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a pretty good baseball fan who posts nothing derogatory in here and is ok in my book.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    This is good news...I appreciate him toughing out the season while injured when we needed arms. Obviously, the results weren't there, but I still like tough players nonetheless. This is a good outcome for both Lackey and the RS. He can take a year off to get healthy and Cherington won't be under pressure to move him. He can come back in 2013 and hopefully contribute at the back end of the rotation.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]funny thing buritto, they guy is having the surgery done yet he had probably his best game when he pitched against the yankees. if his elbow was bothering him he sure didn't show it. however, with all that said, I have no problem not seeing his sour puss kissah next year either. and as for jetes, he's not busting on anybody man. I took it when he said "ouch" meaning that having elbow surgery is not too much fun to go through. he might be a yankee fan, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a pretty good baseball fan who posts nothing derogatory in here and is ok in my book.
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]hey Big D...where ya been?....hope all is good..it's all good, i get where buritto is coming from...hey, we still gotta  work on a hookup for next season, since we couldn't make it happen this season...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Saluda. Show Saluda's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    I guess when "it's about that time" he'll have to use his left arm for a while
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey


    If Lackey came back next year and performed the way he did this year, it'd be a disaster for both him and the team. He wasn't great his first year in Boston. He was horrendous last season. If he came back next year and struggles into June how long could they realistically keep putting him out there? After two poor seasons, there's no reason to think a poor start next year would be anything but more of the same. It'd be a miserable situation for Lackey because he's already hated in Boston and I don't know if he could handle another year being the poster boy of wasted money and failure. He probably wouldn't react well to being taken out of the rotation or sent to the minors. The team would have to eat a huge contract.

    I see this as a last ditch effort to salvage his time in Boston and possibly his career. Most pitchers come back from Tommy John surgery stronger. What will be interesting is what happens when he has to pitch that 6th year now that the injury triggered the option in his contract. I can't see any player agreeing to that deal unless they were certain they weren't going to be having surgery. After making $85 million will he really want to pitch a forced year at league minimum? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE] I can't see any player agreeing to that deal unless they were certain they weren't going to be having surgery. After making $85 million will he really want to pitch a forced year at league minimum? 
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]Couple of thoughts. Most athletes think they aren't going to get injured and they never are prepared for a sharp decline from aging either.

    As for the contract, I think at that level, guys view this differently. The key when he was a free agent was that the contract he was negotiating was going to be the bulk of his career earnings and the guaranteed total $$$ were the key. If he he missed a year for a pre-existing problem I am sure he saw the extra year as a small trade off.

    Let's a;; keep in mind while TJ has become common and the recovery rates are very high it is a radical procedure. They are taking a ligament from one part of your body and stitching in to your elbow joints. It is not something that doctors, team medical staff or the players take lightly. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    Maybe they can transplant his brain fro his a$$ to his head while their doing the TJ surgery.  They can call it John Lackey Surgery.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]If Lackey came back next year and performed the way he did this year, it'd be a disaster for both him and the team. He wasn't great his first year in Boston. He was horrendous last season. If he came back next year and struggles into June how long could they realistically keep putting him out there? After two poor seasons, there's no reason to think a poor start next year would be anything but more of the same. It'd be a miserable situation for Lackey because he's already hated in Boston and I don't know if he could handle another year being the poster boy of wasted money and failure. He probably wouldn't react well to being taken out of the rotation or sent to the minors. The team would have to eat a huge contract. I see this as a last ditch effort to salvage his time in Boston and possibly his career. Most pitchers come back from Tommy John surgery stronger. What will be interesting is what happens when he has to pitch that 6th year now that the injury triggered the option in his contract. I can't see any player agreeing to that deal unless they were certain they weren't going to be having surgery. After making $85 million will he really want to pitch a forced year at league minimum? 
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]

    I would think that 2010 and last years struggles are and were related to his elbow...unfortunately he was damaged goods and I've contended for two years that he no longer had that nasty slider that was his outpitch when he toiled in LA...Hard to say why he kept taking the ball last year when clearly he was pitching with diminshed stuff...that's the million dollar question to me.

    Did he take the ball or did the organization give him the ball. knowing that he would ultimately need the surgury and wasn't at risk of doing any more damage or hurt to the extent that it couldn't be fixed by TJ?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey : I would think that 2010 and last years struggles are and were related to his elbow...unfortunately he was damaged goods and I've contended for two years that he no longer had that nasty slider that was his outpitch when he toiled in LA...Hard to say why he kept taking the ball last year when clearly he was pitching with diminshed stuff...that's the million dollar question to me. Did he take the ball or did the organization give him the ball. knowing that he would ultimately need the surgury and wasn't at risk of doing any more damage or hurt to the extent that it couldn't be fixed by TJ?
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    I never thought of Lackey as the ace his contract suggested he was seen as. I don't like him, I wouldn't be distraught to see him never pitch in Boston again, but even if he isn't as good as advertised nobody expected him to be that bad. If they felt they had to include the provision in his contract that he owes them another year if he misses a year due to TJ there must have been some elbow issue when they signed him. 

    Gammons reported in June that Lackey would need Tommy John. Lackey responded with that defensive anger usually reserved for explaining why giving up 7 runs isn't as bad as it looks. With Buchholz out, maybe he kept on because they couldn't afford to lose another starter. Maybe he was doing it for the team....but given the clause in his contract he definitely had his own reasons for wanting to avoid TJ at all costs. It's probably a combination of the teaming needing to get something out of him with the injuries to the staff, and him wanting to avoid surgery, the rehab, the lost season and the contractual obligation that comes with it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey : I would think that 2010 and last years struggles are and were related to his elbow...unfortunately he was damaged goods and I've contended for two years that he no longer had that nasty slider that was his outpitch when he toiled in LA...Hard to say why he kept taking the ball last year when clearly he was pitching with diminshed stuff...that's the million dollar question to me. Did he take the ball or did the organization give him the ball. knowing that he would ultimately need the surgury and wasn't at risk of doing any more damage or hurt to the extent that it couldn't be fixed by TJ?
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]It is pretty hard to do damage that TJ can't fix since it is a replacement of a ligament. This no doubt played into his continuing to pitch. He took the ball in part because that is what athletes are wired to do and in part because his contract gave him security IMO.

    There is little doubt that the RS lost the bet on Lackey's elbow being able to rehabilitate without surgery and his performance suggests there was the typical steady decline in performance in 2010 and sharp fall off in 2011 that suggests he hit a major turning point in the condition of the elbow during ST. (people forget now that he had a great 2011 ST).

    A little bit about TJ from Wikipedia

    Process

    After the tendon from the forearm of the same or opposite elbow or below the knee (or from a cadaver) is harvested, it is then woven in a figure-eight pattern through tunnels that have been drilled in the ulna & humerus bone that are part of the elbow joint.

    Prognosis

    In 2009, chances of a complete recovery after surgery are estimated at 85 to 92 percent.[1] At the time of Tommy John's operation, Jobe put his chances at 1 in 100. After his surgery in 1974, John spent 18 months rehabilitating his arm, returned for the 1976 season, and went on to pitch in the major leagues until 1989 at age 46. For baseball players, full rehabilitation takes about one year for pitchers and about six months for position players. Players typically begin throwing about 16 weeks after surgery

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_John_surgery
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey : I never thought of Lackey as the ace his contract suggested he was seen as. I don't like him, I wouldn't be distraught to see him never pitch in Boston again, but even if he isn't as good as advertised nobody expected him to be that bad. If they felt they had to include the provision in his contract that he owes them another year if he misses a year due to TJ there must have been some elbow issue when they signed him.  Gammons reported in June that Lackey would need Tommy John. Lackey responded with that defensive anger usually reserved for explaining why giving up 7 runs isn't as bad as it looks. With Buchholz out, maybe he kept on because they couldn't afford to lose another starter. Maybe he was doing it for the team....but given the clause in his contract he definitely had his own reasons for wanting to avoid TJ at all costs. It's probably a combination of the teaming needing to get something out of him with the injuries to the staff, and him wanting to avoid surgery, the rehab, the lost season and the contractual obligation that comes with it.
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]

    don't disagree with any of the above...I'm certain that all of the above was at play...the one thing that I will say is that he wasn't sign to be nor was he paid to be the ace...Santana and Sabathia are examples of pitchers that are making market value ace money's north of 20M. Lackey's deal (15M) mirrors the deals that guy like Burnett and Lowe signed...solid #2 or #3...hopefully once healed he can return to the pitcher we hoped we'd signed and that's a guy that gives you 33 starts 200 innings with a sub 4 ERA...which is about where his career ave was when he signed....
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:16 PM EDT
    Posts: 6569
    First: 8/22/2006
    Last: 10/26/2011
    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    funny thing buritto, they guy is having the surgery done yet he had probably his best game when he pitched against the yankees. if his elbow was bothering him he sure didn't show it. however, with all that said, I have no problem not seeing his sour puss kissah next year either. and as for jetes, he's not busting on anybody man. I took it when he said "ouch" meaning that having elbow surgery is not too much fun to go through. he might be a yankee fan, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a pretty good baseball fan who posts nothing derogatory in here and is ok in my book.
    Posted by Hammah29r2
    hey Big D...where ya been?....hope all is good..it's all good, i get where buritto is coming from...hey, we still gotta work on a hookup for next season, since we couldn't make it happen this season...
    ....SPC knows best....          


    you know it bud. hey, what would you think if we made your bench coach our new manager? lol. ya gotta remember that tony pena has a helluva lot more history with us than with you guys. plus, doesn't his son pitch for the sox? ya never know man! anything is possible.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from freddym48. Show freddym48's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    I would put Lackey on the trading block.  If no one picks him up, I'd let him go.  He didn't suck this year because he needs surgery.  He sucked because he sucks.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey:
    [QUOTE]posted at 10/26/2011 12:16 PM EDT jete02fan Posts: 6569 First: 8/22/2006 Last: 10/26/2011 2604c3c63c96eedd7b70408ba89ebd5c In Response to Re: TJ surgery for Lackey : funny thing buritto, they guy is having the surgery done yet he had probably his best game when he pitched against the yankees. if his elbow was bothering him he sure didn't show it. however, with all that said, I have no problem not seeing his sour puss kissah next year either. and as for jetes, he's not busting on anybody man. I took it when he said "ouch" meaning that having elbow surgery is not too much fun to go through. he might be a yankee fan, but as far as I'm concerned, he's a pretty good baseball fan who posts nothing derogatory in here and is ok in my book. Posted by Hammah29r2 hey Big D...where ya been?....hope all is good..it's all good, i get where buritto is coming from...hey, we still gotta work on a hookup for next season, since we couldn't make it happen this season... ....SPC knows best....           you know it bud. hey, what would you think if we made your bench coach our new manager? lol. ya gotta remember that tony pena has a helluva lot more history with us than with you guys. plus, doesn't his son pitch for the sox? ya never know man! anything is possible.
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]i love TP and would be very happy for him...it would be a long time coming...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: TJ surgery for Lackey

    Leave it to the #@$#@ Yankee fan to start a reasonable, rational, fair discussion about Lackey. 

    Grrrrrr.

    -Daf. 
     

Share