To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    Here's a recent post from mlbtraderumors.com:

    "White Sox pitchers Gavin Floyd and John Danks are both available in the right deal, but according to one GM, Kenny Williams will want at least "two A-level prospects and a third that’s a notch below, and that might not get it done."

    So apparently the price tag for a single year of a slightly above-average pitcher would be something like Will Middlebrooks, Anthony Ranaudo, and someone like Kolbrin Vitek. And that might not be enough.

    Thanks, but I'll pass on that price tag. And if you'd actually pay that...well, don't ever complain about the Sox being short on upper-level prospects, because this is the kind of short-sighted deal that causes a prospect deficit.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In Response to To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...:
    [QUOTE]Here's a recent post from mlbtraderumors.com: "White Sox pitchers Gavin Floyd and John Danks are both available in the right deal, but according to one GM, Kenny Williams will want at least "two A-level prospects and a third that’s a notch below, and that might not get it done." So apparently the price tag for a single year of a slightly above-average pitcher would be something like Will Middlebrooks, Anthony Ranaudo, and someone like Kolbrin Vitek. And that might not be enough. Thanks, but I'll pass on that price tag. And if you'd actually pay that...well, don't ever complain about the Sox being short on upper-level prospects, because this is the kind of short-sighted deal that causes a prospect deficit.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]
    It would be generous to label Will Middlebrooks and Anthony Ranaudo "A-level prospects."

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012
     
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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In response to "Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...": [QUOTE]In Response to To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd... : It would be generous to label Will Middlebrooks and Anthony Ranaudo "A-level prospects." http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012 Posted by hill55[/QUOTE] Hill, that wasn't his point. The point was that the cost for Gavin Floyd is clearly not worth it. Don't put too much stock in "prospect lists," either. They fluctuate like the stock market from year to year, clearly not all scouts agree on all these kids, and there are scouts out there who still think Ranaudo & Middlebrooks will be good Major Leaguers...
     
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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In Response to Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd... : It would be generous to label Will Middlebrooks and Anthony Ranaudo "A-level prospects." http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Just an FYI, an "A level prospect" is not the same as an "elite" prospect. Elite prospects are virtually impossible to deal for, and you need to give up an elite player and/or a player with years of cost control to have a chance at one.

    "A level prospects" are players who are well-developed and project well to the major league level (Middlebrooks and Lavarnway are good examples) or who are a bit raw or new to the professional level, but have high upside (Ranaudo and Brentz fit that type).

    Elite prospects either hit both areas, or have massive upside...the only Sox prospect who is close to that is Xander Bogaerts (his upside is a tad too low and his professional experience a bit too limited for him to be labeled as such...for now).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    It's 2 years of Floyd, not 1.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    So apparently the price tag for a single year of a slightly above-average pitcher would be something like Will Middlebrooks, Anthony Ranaudo, and someone like Kolbrin Vitek. And that might not be enough.

    1) There is a team option for gavin for 2013, so it's 2 years not 1.

    2) Floyd is better than a "slightly above-average pitcher". Out of the top 150 starters in MLb the last 4 years, Floyd ranks between #16 and #70 in the important stats and metrics. Overall, he ranks about 20th to 30th depending on what you think is more important. 30th out of 150 makes him better than 80% of all starters in MLB. 

    3) He's just entering his prime years.

    4) He's light years better than Cook or Padilla.

    5) Getting Floyd would allow our pen to be better than last year's by keeping Bard there.

    6) The White Sox want to cut salary, so they may take less than what most think they deserve due to the cost savings. That ebing said, I'd give Salty, Middlebrooks and Bowden or Middlebrooks, Ranaudo and Anderson... maybe more.

    7) While his salary is rather high, his hit on the luxury tax is only $3.9M for 2012.

    8) We have Bogaerts and Cecchini to take over Youk's job in 2014.

    I seriously doubt we win a ring with just 3 starters of note who have never all had a good & healthy season at the same time. We need a guy like Floyd... now!
     
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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In Response to To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...:
    [QUOTE]Here's a recent post from mlbtraderumors.com: "White Sox pitchers Gavin Floyd and John Danks are both available in the right deal, but according to one GM, Kenny Williams will want at least "two A-level prospects and a third that’s a notch below, and that might not get it done." So apparently the price tag for a single year of a slightly above-average pitcher would be something like Will Middlebrooks, Anthony Ranaudo, and someone like Kolbrin Vitek. And that might not be enough. Thanks, but I'll pass on that price tag. And if you'd actually pay that...well, don't ever complain about the Sox being short on upper-level prospects, because this is the kind of short-sighted deal that causes a prospect deficit.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    Actually, It's really none of your damn business if one complains or not...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In Response to Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd... : Just an FYI, an "A level prospect" is not the same as an "elite" prospect. Elite prospects are virtually impossible to deal for, and you need to give up an elite player and/or a player with years of cost control to have a chance at one. "A level prospects" are players who are well-developed and project well to the major league level (Middlebrooks and Lavarnway are good examples) or who are a bit raw or new to the professional level, but have high upside (Ranaudo and Brentz fit that type). Elite prospects either hit both areas, or have massive upside...the only Sox prospect who is close to that is Xander Bogaerts (his upside is a tad too low and his professional experience a bit too limited for him to be labeled as such...for now).
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]
    How does a player become an A-level prospect without some sort of ranking?

    A recent consensus prospect list has Will Middlebrooks at No. 63 and Anthony Ranaudo at No. 145. If they're borth A-level prospects, that's grade inflation.

    http://www.fantasyleaguegm.com/2012/03/15/2012-mlb-prospect-rankings-17/

    I concede that prospect lists to not precisely predict a player's future. Middlebrooks and Ranaudo could be far better -- or far worse -- than their prospect rankings.

    I hope Middlebrooks and Ranaudo have successful careers, but I have reservations.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    Last year Floyd was 12-13 , with a 4.37 ERA.  Have to think those numbers would be somewhat worse pitching in the A.L. East and in Fenway. Would not give up too much to acquire him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    In Response to To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...:
    [QUOTE]Here's a recent post from mlbtraderumors.com: "White Sox pitchers Gavin Floyd and John Danks are both available in the right deal, but according to one GM, Kenny Williams will want at least "two A-level prospects and a third that’s a notch below, and that might not get it done." So apparently the price tag for a single year of a slightly above-average pitcher would be something like Will Middlebrooks, Anthony Ranaudo, and someone like Kolbrin Vitek. And that might not be enough. Thanks, but I'll pass on that price tag. And if you'd actually pay that...well, don't ever complain about the Sox being short on upper-level prospects, because this is the kind of short-sighted deal that causes a prospect deficit.
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    Floyd or Danks are not the answer to our problems.   Dice, Lackey, CC and Jenks contracts are and we need to live with it, especially after bringing back Papi for another year.  We just need to deal with the hand dealt to us until we have the wiggle room to escape it.
     
    ... Dice, had some success but also a ton of innings on his arm before we ever spent a fortune to bid on and sign him 
    ... Lackey, with or without surgery isn't worth anywhere near the money we paid him.
    ... Jenks, a complete bust from day one and described to the tee by Ozzie before Theo signed him anyway.
    ... CC, a good ballplayer but lets face it he was also grossly overpaid

    We need to get through this season which could be much like last year if guys like Bard, Doubront and Aceves can't help, or hurt our pen in return.  Maybe when Lackey returns we can find a taker, like the Yanks did with AJ after absorbing salary.  Jenks should be gone, along with Papi and Dice, unless he recovers so well we keep him around.  Don't expect a miricle this season unless we actually trade prospects for a decent young pitcher, not cast offs like Oswalt, Danks and Floyd.

    Lastly, don't blame Bobby or Ben for our past failures until they have a real chance to make a difference
     


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    Last year Floyd was 12-13 , with a 4.37 ERA.  Have to think those numbers would be somewhat worse pitching in the A.L. East and in Fenway. Would not give up too much to acquire him.

    ERA is not everthing. Floyd has been very good in WHIP and over the last 4 years has been ranked about 15th to 30th out of the top 70 starting AL pitchers in every significant category.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    Don't expect a miricle this season unless we actually trade prospects for a decent young pitcher, not cast offs like Oswalt, Danks and Floyd.

    A top 20 to 25 AL starter over the last 4 years, who is just now in his prime, is not a "castoff". Many quality players are traded by teams looking to cut salary and/or go younger.
     
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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    m
     
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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

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    Re: To those of you who have complained about the Sox not trading for Gavin Floyd...

    That ebing said, I'd give Salty, Middlebrooks and Bowden or Middlebrooks, Ranaudo and Anderson... maybe more.

    The White Sox have zero interest in Anderson and/or Salty and/or Bowden. Throw in Tim Wastefield and the kitchen sink.

    The Red Sox have blown a fortune on lousy veteran contract value decisions. Floyd is on the block for a reason, and it's not just "cutting costs". Stay away from Floyd and continue to develop and improve the depth of the farm. Never ever ever take on any expensive contracts but for proven and still young enough veteran superstars via trade or FA. Few GM's are smart enought to understand that, and attempt to take pipe dream shortcuts.

    Beckett and Lester and Buchh are the profiles who must perform at a high level all season. Beyond that, if any of these players break down then the Red Sox need to summer sell every non-long term contract player who returns equal or better value and get the yearly payroll down to a level that allows for flexibility to acquire the young superstar RH OPS profile and pitche rand make the complimentary moves needed to construct the proper balanced 25 man roster. 

    Frankly, the only chance the Red Sox have to be a 2012 contender is high season number and quality innings performances from Beckett, Lester and Buch. If that doesn't happen due to injury or otherwise, before the trade deadline Cherry needs to blow this billion dollar payroll up! 

       
     

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