Too Late for Lohse?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Too Late for Lohse?

    A question - teams have had pitchers in for some time now - is a late signing for Lohse a bad thing for expecting good returns on his season?

    This is one Boras client that has suffered from high expectations ... once thought by some to be among the better gets of a thin FA  class ... he now waits just to get a contract.

    I would have been interested earlier, even with giving up a draft pick.  But now, I see his late - as of yet signing - to be a huge red flag.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    I think we have enough depth if something goes wrong. At this time we have all 5 slots filled and I doubt he would accept any other role. That, and losing a 2nd round pick along with the $$ with said pick...IMO, not worth it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Yeah ... I agree.  But I was kinda wondering about the idea on the mlb wide picture ...  I'd hate to start a season late, and Lohse's gonna, even if he was signed today

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    I think it's not too late to sign Lohse but it's still late to sign him.  Giving up 2nd round pick and signing bonus slot are the biggest factor Ben did not pursue Lohse this winter.  However, we have one more problem.  We have 5 starting pitchers who are expected to take 1-5 spots if everything goes smoothly during the ST.  Lohse means one of 5 guys we have have to go IMO.  Felix Doubront can be used as long reliever if needed but Douby won't be happy about the decision.  He has to struggle mighty in the ST to be forced back to BP role.  John Lackey deserves a chance I think.  He looks healthy after TJ surgery, he trimmed down 20-30 lbs, joined camp in shape and ready to go.  If he can pitch effectively in the ST, I think he deserves #4 or 5 spot in the rotation.  He won't pitch out of BP.  Plus we have Aceves, Morales, Mortensen as depth in the major and Wright, Webster, Rubby are waiting to be called up in the Pawtucket.    

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Weiner said he expects to discuss draft pick compensation with MLB before the current collective bargaining agreement expires, Andy Martino of the New York Daily News reports. It sounds as though the MLBPA would like to consider changes to the system that affected the leverage ofplayers such as Michael Bourn and Kyle Lohse. "The compensation affected those guys fairly dramatically this year, and we would like to try to address that,” Weiner said.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    It only affected Lohse because he turned down $13.3 mil for one year's work. Boo hoo.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to notin's comment:

    It only affected Lohse because he turned down $13.3 mil for one year's work. Boo hoo.



    Lohse and his agent Scott Boras got too greedy.  LOL

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Man went 16-3 in 211 IP with an ERA below 3.00 and still doesn't have a job as ST has started. He was 7th in the Cy Young voting. 

    Baseball has changed. There was a time when he would have been one of the premier FA's of the off-season.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to bald-predictions' comment:

    Man went 16-3 in 211 IP with an ERA below 3.00 and still doesn't have a job as ST has started. He was 7th in the Cy Young voting. 

    Baseball has changed. There was a time when he would have been one of the premier FA's of the off-season.


    Signing Kyle Lohse this off season would be the true definition of "buying high." Signing a pitcher who will turn 35 this year and is coming off his best season, to a multi-year, big money contract, while your team loses a draft pick (as well as the slot money) in a baseball business climate that has changed pretty drastically in the last few years is not all that tempting obviously.  He will pitch for someone this year, but Boras seems to have misread this one.  

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    Weiner said he expects to discuss draft pick compensation with MLB before the current collective bargaining agreement expires, Andy Martino of the New York Daily News reports. It sounds as though the MLBPA would like to consider changes to the system that affected the leverage ofplayers such as Michael Bourn and Kyle Lohse. "The compensation affected those guys fairly dramatically this year, and we would like to try to address that,” Weiner said.




    Both are Boras clients as well, who always likes to let the market come to him...a strategy that works with the top tier guys...not so much with players that are not seen as among the best at thier postions.

    >Lohse is a middle of the rotation NL pitcher who was looking for a 60M / 4 year deal. Not only is he not worth the moneys. He's not worth losing the slot moneys for the #2. Which is in fact the real issue with the FA draft compensation.

    >Bourn's problem had more to do with the glut of CF on the market and not a ton of teams with needs. The guys a plus defender but not a plus hitter...Frankly, the kids a good ball player, but not an impact player. If he were the Braves would have resigned him, instead of signing Upton...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Yes we should sign 100 pitchers, u just cannot have enough.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to bald-predictions's comment:

    Man went 16-3 in 211 IP with an ERA below 3.00 and still doesn't have a job as ST has started. He was 7th in the Cy Young voting. 

    Baseball has changed. There was a time when he would have been one of the premier FA's of the off-season.



     

    He is 34 and was asking for 4 years and a ton of money.  That receipe never sits well, and he really never had a chance at aking lesser deals because teams decided he is not worth re-arranging their draft budget over.

     

    Oh, and he really is not that good, either.  He survived alst eyar thanks to some qualiy defense behind him, but he can give up tons of line drives.

     

    THe best thing about him is he does not walk people. But anyone who signed him would be looking at an expensive 38yo contact pitcher in 4 years.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to Beantowne's comment:




    Both are Boras clients as well, who always likes to let the market come to him...a strategy that works with the top tier guys...not so much with players that are not seen as among the best at thier postions.

     

    >Lohse is a middle of the rotation NL pitcher who was looking for a 60M / 4 year deal. Not only is he not worth the moneys. He's not worth losing the slot moneys for the #2. Which is in fact the real issue with the FA draft compensation.

    >Bourn's problem had more to do with the glut of CF on the market and not a ton of teams with needs. The guys a plus defender but not a plus hitter...Frankly, the kids a good ball player, but not an impact player. If he were the Braves would have resigned him, instead of signing Upton...

    [/QUOTE]

    He's not worth losing the slot moneys for the #2. Which is in fact the real issue with the FA draft compensation.

     

    help me out here BT

    why did you word it that way

    instead of the team looses a pick

    I would think loosing the slot money would be secondary 2 that

    almost to the point of who cares if you don't have the pick to spend it on

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

     

    With Chris Carpenter out, I thought the Cardinals would sign him.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from phxvlsoxfan. Show phxvlsoxfan's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    A question - teams have had pitchers in for some time now - is a late signing for Lohse a bad thing for expecting good returns on his season?

    This is one Boras client that has suffered from high expectations ... once thought by some to be among the better gets of a thin FA  class ... he now waits just to get a contract.

    I would have been interested earlier, even with giving up a draft pick.  But now, I see his late - as of yet signing - to be a huge red flag.




    Reminds me of the Oswalt situation last year.  He held out for the perfect scenario which never came to pass until well into the season, then was a bust for Texas.  Lohse is going to have to take an offer from someone very soon or it could ruin his year, and at his age, possibly be a career issue.  St.L makes sense since the pick doesn't impact them.  You have to wonder if they know something??  Someone make be willing to go 1 yr, say $5 mil plus incentives.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Melky Cabrera and Bartolo Colon have jobs with playoff contenders but Lohse does not.   

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Lohse doesn't have appealing track records for the teams to forget about their draft picks.  He should have accepted the offer and ditch his agent.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to phxvlsoxfan's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    A question - teams have had pitchers in for some time now - is a late signing for Lohse a bad thing for expecting good returns on his season?

    This is one Boras client that has suffered from high expectations ... once thought by some to be among the better gets of a thin FA  class ... he now waits just to get a contract.

    I would have been interested earlier, even with giving up a draft pick.  But now, I see his late - as of yet signing - to be a huge red flag.

     




     

    Reminds me of the Oswalt situation last year.  He held out for the perfect scenario which never came to pass until well into the season, then was a bust for Texas.  Lohse is going to have to take an offer from someone very soon or it could ruin his year, and at his age, possibly be a career issue.  St.L makes sense since the pick doesn't impact them.  You have to wonder if they know something??  Someone make be willing to go 1 yr, say $5 mil plus incentives.



    if i were the Cards, no way i would offer him anything close to the QO they gave him at the beginning of hot stove. You had your chance to re-up and you blew it. Now it looks like you may not get signed, 1 year, 7 Mil.

    then again, i don't know what the Cards roto looks like. But he was one of their best pitchers the last 2 seasons so he's got to be better than someone there.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to AL34's comment:

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!




    The Sox don't have a rotation spot for him anyway.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to AL34's comment:

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!



    I think the draft pick is more of an issue than the money.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to AL34's comment:

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!



    Wouldn't his sognoing put us over the payroll cap?

    In the finance world, you generally cannot be over your budget and cheap at the same time.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to AL34's comment:

     

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!

     



    I think the draft pick is more of an issue than the money.

     




    Not so much the draft pick, but the slot money.  Higher draft picks represent a larger portion of the slot budget.  Notice only one team with a protected pick signed any free agents with a qualifying offer, and that team (Cleveland) signed two (Bourn and Swisher).

     

    This helps Boston slightly because Cleveland picks just in front of Boston and is less likely now to draft a Boras bank-breaking client for signability reasons.

     

    I do not mind the Sox just keeping the draft budget this year since there were only a couple names even worth thinking about, and those guys all got insane contracts that far exceed their abilities...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Too Late for Lohse?

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to AL34's comment:

     

    Sorry people but we are not getting Lohse. Unless he comes to the team for nothing Larry "the Bean Counter" is never going to allow that to happen. This team is in cheapo mode and they are not going to spend big money on free agents. Ben, Larry likes his coffe light and sweet, off you go!

     



    I think the draft pick is more of an issue than the money.

     

     




     

    Not so much the draft pick, but the slot money.  Higher draft picks represent a larger portion of the slot budget.  Notice only one team with a protected pick signed any free agents with a qualifying offer, and that team (Cleveland) signed two (Bourn and Swisher).

     

    This helps Boston slightly because Cleveland picks just in front of Boston and is less likely now to draft a Boras bank-breaking client for signability reasons.

     

    I do not mind the Sox just keeping the draft budget this year since there were only a couple names even worth thinking about, and those guys all got insane contracts that far exceed their abilities...



    I almost said that, but I was trying to keep it simple for AL34. :-)

     

Share