Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    A number of posters are still under the impression that the Red Sox are somehow "jinxed" or that it is injuries alone that are keeping this team down.

    I just glanced at the Toronto Blue Jays injured list and they have an astounding 12 players hurt including 9 pitchers and their starting catcher!

    The Red Sox with more funds available to stock up on pitching have 6 pitchers on the DL , ONLY ONE OF WHICH HAS PROVEN EFFECTIVE (Atchison), two who could be useful ( if we ever get to find out -Bailey, and if used as a lefty specialist-Hill) and two have been dismal, at best ( Matsuzaka and Lackey).
    The Blue Jays have a much lower payroll , most of their pitching staff is on the DL and their top slugger also on the DL. Yet they are managing to keep pace with this monster of the East, this juggernaut known as the Boston Red Sox.

    How can this be?

    Injuries are a convenient excuse , but poor play will keep below .500 and in a tie for last place with a team that has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    it has been well noted Lizard King that even with 2/3 of our outfield gone most of the year, if our top two starters were just .500 in starts, we would be in the wild card lead...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Not only that, they are making deals to try to improve, something that escapes our brilliant GM.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]I would think that the favored statistic to use in assessing the degree of injuries over the course of the entire season to-date is the number of players who have been on the DL or else the total number of player days on the DL. Something else to compare would be the # of days that impact players have spent on the DL. All of these measures would be better than those on the DL on this day. Why is Zillagod acting as a Contrarian or Devil's Advocate today, is it your turn? You seem to change your colors quite often. Tired of a slow forum?
    Posted by Calzone65[/QUOTE]

    I'm strictly here for the entertainment value, although occasionally I have a really good point about something.

    My point is that we have posters who like to point out how injuries are keeping us from being the juggernaut that our payroll indicates we should be. Yet pitching is a huge part of baseball and one of our rival teams has had it's pitching staff decimated by injury, yet has refused to bow out and shut it down for the season....the Blue Jays recently addresses their desperate need for pitching depth by trading with Houston. When does Cherrybomb get some pitching depth for us , or do we keeping snapping wishbones and using tarot cards to tell us if Bard, Lester and Beckett are going to return to ALL STAR form? Sitting on your hands and hoping is usually not good strategy.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Zilla it's been about poor play much of the season. Guys failing to get down bunts, pop ups being dropped by fill in 3rd baseman, outfielders letting a ball go under their glove, throwing a WP w/ 2 outs and runner on 3rd, pitchers giving up 3,4,5 runs in the 1st inn. I could go on as could every other person on this forum. Injuries have played a part there's no doubt but good teams execute when it matters which means all gm long.   
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox? : I'm strictly here for the entertainment value, although occasionally I have a really good point about something. My point is that we have posters who like to point out how injuries are keeping us from being the juggernaut that our payroll indicates we should be. Yet pitching is a huge part of baseball and one of our rival teams has had it's pitching staff decimated by injury, yet has refused to bow out and shut it down for the season....the Blue Jays recently addresses their desperate need for pitching depth by trading with Houston. When does Cherrybomb get some pitching depth for us , or do we keeping snapping wishbones and using tarot cards to tell us if Bard, Lester and Beckett are going to return to ALL STAR form? Sitting on your hands and hoping is usually not good strategy.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Zilla, you do realize who you are chatting with, right?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Out almost or all year:
    Ellsbury
    Crawford
    Bailey
    Lackey
    Dice-K
    Jenks
    Westmoreland

    Missed some time:
    Ortiz
    Pedroia
    C Ross
    Beckett
    Buchholtz
    Youkilis
    AGon
    Middlebrooks
    Sweeney
    Kalish
    DMac
    Atchison
    RHill
    Cook
    A Miller
    Podsednik
    Repko
    Ciriaco

    Yeah, some teams might be hurt more than us, but pretending injuries have not been a major factor is being short-sighted.

    Blaming it all on injuries is being short-sighted as well. As geo pionts out over and over, if we just got better play from Lester and Beckett, we´d be playoff bound... also AGon, Pedey and maybe a few less blown saves from Aceves as well.


     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]A number of posters are still under the impression that the Red Sox are somehow "jinxed" or that it is injuries alone that are keeping this team down. I just glanced at the Toronto Blue Jays injured list and they have an astounding 12 players hurt including 9 pitchers and their starting catcher! The Red Sox with more funds available to stock up on pitching have 6 pitchers on the DL , ONLY ONE OF WHICH HAS PROVEN EFFECTIVE (Atchison), two who could be useful ( if we ever get to find out -Bailey, and if used as a lefty specialist-Hill) and two have been dismal, at best ( Matsuzaka and Lackey). The Blue Jays have a much lower payroll , most of their pitching staff is on the DL and their top slugger also on the DL. Yet they are managing to keep pace with this monster of the East, this juggernaut known as the Boston Red Sox. How can this be? Injuries are a convenient excuse , but poor play will keep below .500 and in a tie for last place with a team that has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    First of all, Boston ranked in the top three for the most players on DL for this entire season which that is why Boston is still struggling for this season. Toronto just started to piled up injuries in the past many weeks.  While Boston is now getting players off of the DL more than they are sending players to DL which that is why the current injury report is making Toronto to look alike they are the most b@nged up team in AL.  

    Seriously, it does not matter who is more b@nged up.  They are both struggling anyway!!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hotrod2. Show hotrod2's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    yes an exciting battle for last place
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Many of the responses fail to address the fact that Boston is #3 in team payroll. Toronto is #23.

    Toronto could double their payroll and still fall about $40 million short of the current Red Sox payroll.

    This is a real life story of David and Goliath.

    David is playing with two broken legs and a severe concussion, while Goliath has the equivalent of a broken finger, a broken toe and maybe a splinter ( or possibly a blister!!!).

    The team with fans that whine about injuries, now is healthier than at any time this season. Yet , they continue to disappoint.

    Time to start moving players , eat some contracts and get some good young kids who might give us a more exciting team two or three years down the road. This team is headed nowhere with high-salaried , unmotivated pitching stars, Beckett, Lester and Matsuzaka. 

    I think AA pitchers could possibly do better. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]Many of the responses fail to address the fact that Boston is #3 in team payroll. Toronto is #23. Toronto could double their payroll and still fall about $40 million short of the current Red Sox payroll. This is a real life story of David and Goliath. David is playing with two broken legs and a severe concussion, while Goliath has the equivalent of a broken finger, a broken toe and maybe a splinter ( or possibly a blister!!!). The team with fans that whine about injuries, now is healthier than at any time this season. Yet , they continue to disappoint. Time to start moving players , eat some contracts and get some good young kids who might give us a more exciting team two or three years down the road. This team is headed nowhere with high-salaried , unmotivated pitching stars, Beckett, Lester and Matsuzaka.  I think AA pitchers could possibly do better. 
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    But more than half of Boston's payroll are on DL.   These players who have been playing are probably as even as these Toronto's players.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox? : But more than half of Boston's payroll are on DL.   These players who have been playing are probably as even as these Toronto's players.  
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    Half of Boston's payroll is on the DL?

    Where? Lackey, Atchison. Bailey , Matsuzaka, Ortiz, Hill and Carpenter are the only Red Sox currently on the DL.

    The Yankees currently have 12 players on the DL. Including Mariano Rivera and Joba Chamberlain, easily bigger losses than Lackey and Matsuzaka.

    Toronto is missing Litsch, Frasor,McGowan,Drabek and Morrow. Not fill-ins, vital members of their pitching staff. Yet they stay alive for a Wild-Card.

    If you scroll through the various MLB teams you will find that just about every team has more injuries than Boston right now, exceot maybe Cincinnati.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Half of Boston's payroll is on the DL?

    Where? Lackey, Atchison. Bailey , Matsuzaka, Ortiz, Hill and Carpenter are the only Red Sox currently on the DL.

    If you look beyond current DL, it makes more sense.


    Don´t forget Jenks as well.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxxcrwn. Show xxxcrwn's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    It's called the Law of Diminishing Returns. A team can only lose so many players before they hit a point where losing more just doesn't matter. It's really simple.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]I would think that the favored statistic to use in assessing the degree of injuries over the course of the entire season to-date is the number of players who have been on the DL or else the total number of player days on the DL. Something else to compare would be the # of days that impact players have spent on the DL. All of these measures would be better than those on the DL on this day. Why is Zillagod acting as a Contrarian or Devil's Advocate today, is it your turn? You seem to change your colors quite often. Tired of a slow forum?
    Posted by Calzone65[/QUOTE]

    I stopped taking it seriously when he referred to Arencibia's injury.  That's like me saying I'd be in 1st in the BDC league Except for Arencibia's injury.  The dude just broke his hand.  I'm not sure I can use that as my excuse for the other 96 games in which he was healthy.

    So just for fun, I looked at there roster.  Their hitters have had virtually perfect health.  Bautista has lost 7 games, and Arencibia lost 2, and the rest of the team has had routine days off.

    So the TO hitting team has lost 9 games.
    The RS hitting team has lost about 230 games.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]Out almost or all year: Ellsbury Crawford Bailey Lackey Dice-K Jenks Westmoreland Missed some time: Ortiz Pedroia C Ross Beckett Buchholtz Youkilis AGon Middlebrooks Sweeney Kalish DMac Atchison RHill Cook A Miller Podsednik Repko Ciriaco Yeah, some teams might be hurt more than us, but pretending injuries have not been a major factor is being short-sighted. Blaming it all on injuries is being short-sighted as well. As geo pionts out over and over, if we just got better play from Lester and Beckett, we´d be playoff bound... also AGon, Pedey and maybe a few less blown saves from Aceves as well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and also serious under-performing from key, big money players  

    Agon
    Bard
    Melancon
    Pedroia
    Beckett
    Lester
    Bucholtz
     
    A deadly combo
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]Out almost or all year: Ellsbury Crawford Bailey Lackey Dice-K Jenks Westmoreland Missed some time: Ortiz Pedroia C Ross Beckett Buchholtz Youkilis AGon Middlebrooks Sweeney Kalish DMac Atchison RHill Cook A Miller Podsednik Repko Ciriaco Yeah, some teams might be hurt more than us, but pretending injuries have not been a major factor is being short-sighted. Blaming it all on injuries is being short-sighted as well. As geo pionts out over and over, if we just got better play from Lester and Beckett, we´d be playoff bound... also AGon, Pedey and maybe a few less blown saves from Aceves as well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I am sure Toronto wishes if Batista was hurt they still had about 5 other all*stars in the line-up. The Red Sox have a boatload of stars so two or three injuries should not mean a thing.

    Oakland has some injuries and under-performers and they seem okay. It is the attitude that Boston lacks.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    Where? Lackey, Atchison. Bailey , Matsuzaka, Ortiz, Hill and Carpenter are the only Red Sox currently on the DL. 

    Remember Ellsbury and Crawford and Pedroria just came off of DL.

    The Yankees currently have 12 players on the DL. Including Mariano Rivera and Joba Chamberlain, easily bigger losses than Lackey and Matsuzaka. 

    Joba??  better than Lackey or Dice K.  you got to be kidding me!!  Joba sucks!!

    My point is about entire freakin season!!!!!!!!   Dont just look at "Oh 75% of the players are back, and they should be going undefeated starting two weeks ago.  That is not how it work.   There is no chemistry in the offense line up cuz one guy goes on DL and another guy come off on DL.  BV had to use so many differernt line up every day.  Once Papi come back at the same time if no one get hurt, then BV can start using same line up every day once it start clicking.

    Really this topic is the dumbest one I have ever seen!!!  There are few people here doesnt understand baseball.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?

    In Response to Re: Toronto has twice as many injured players and a much lower payroll, how is it they are keeping up with the Red Sox?:
    [QUOTE]Half of Boston's payroll is on the DL? Where? Lackey, Atchison. Bailey , Matsuzaka, Ortiz, Hill and Carpenter are the only Red Sox currently on the DL. If you look beyond current DL, it makes more sense. Don´t forget Jenks as well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon 

    Jenks on the DL list is a good thing Tongue Out
     

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