What to do at SS?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    What to do at SS?

    Who to add at SS is possibly the last decission to make. Drew or a lesser player? And how much lesser?

    Lets start with Drew. If we sign him we have to trade a starter. Will there be enough playing time for Will however? After the signing of Napoli, the only way I see us keeping Middlebrooks is if we start the season with Bogaerts in AAA or we try and make Middlebrooks a supersub and he see's action in the out field. Both are possible and both make some sense. But both unlikely. Middlebrooks likely gets traded. And is that smart selling low?

    If we sign Drew, for how long? I see a 1-14 deal being very possible. One thing I hope if we resign Drew is that we don't give any promises about not giving the QO. We could then get the first round compensation next year. BTW, we probably have a 50-50 chance of getting compensation for Napoli since he will still only be 33 at the end of his deal. We still might someday see those picks, they just might be delayed.

    Next is the question of Bogaerts position. Which is his best position? They say SS, but you never know if people are telling the truth. And if its SS, is it smart to stunt his defensive growth, even for a year? Its a debatable topic. If Bogaerts is best suited at 3rd base, then signing Drew long term is not only possible, but might be called for since our next SS in line is probably 2-3 years away.

    Finally is the question of a major injury. I think they force Cecchini up no matter who gets injured. His proffesional hitting approach likely makes him acceptable.

    But my main point is not really about if we sign Drew, but if we don't. Then what? A bunch of things to consider. First is what side of the plate for the SS to hit from? Since Pedroia, Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are all righties, a lefty SS is the obvious choice. This way you can rest each guy 5-15 games against righties and get potentially a lefty player of equal production to replace them.

    Second is the concern of a major fail. What if Middlebrooks mentally collapses with the bat? Or what if Bogaerts is simply unacceptable at SS defensively? Both are possible even though I like both players more then most. Its still possible. Then what? What if Bogaerts gets injured aswell? Doesn't the backup have to have SS starter potential? Who do they have in the minors? Holt is mostly a second baseman and he kind of sucks. Menses is not an option is he? And Merrero is a guy I really like, but he is 2 years away atleast isn't he?

    In free agency are Barmes, Santiago or McDonald really options? Both Barmes and Santiago have put up below 600 OPS each of the last two seasons and both are getting very old. And Barmes and McDonald hits righty. I don't see any real options in free agency that fits.

    I think if we don't sign Drew then we need to trade for a lefty hitting SS that could start if he had too. I think Gregorious is a possibility. Arizona is open to trading him because they have another SS they like even more. They are looking for a veteran starting pitcher. Also Peavy used to pitch in Arizona, just sayin.

    Gregorious is a lefty. His defense is good. He had a 704 OPS and 332 OB% last year with a reasonable 290 BABIP. He has an extreme split hitting 773 OPS against righties. He is also from the Netherlands so he might be friends with Bogaerts, which might help him accept a backup role. And since are next SS is at least 2 years away he could be around for at least that long.

    If we don't sign Drew, I think it would be extremely dangerous to not find a decent SS. Prefferably left handed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Who to add at SS is possibly the last decission to make. Drew or a lesser player? And how much lesser?

    Lets start with Drew. If we sign him we have to trade a starter. Will there be enough playing time for Will however? After the signing of Napoli, the only way I see us keeping Middlebrooks is if we start the season with Bogaerts in AAA or we try and make Middlebrooks a supersub and he see's action in the out field. Both are possible and both make some sense. But both unlikely. Middlebrooks likely gets traded. And is that smart selling low?

    If we sign Drew, for how long? I see a 1-14 deal being very possible. One thing I hope if we resign Drew is that we don't give any promises about not giving the QO. We could then get the first round compensation next year. BTW, we probably have a 50-50 chance of getting compensation for Napoli since he will still only be 33 at the end of his deal. We still might someday see those picks, they just might be delayed.

    Next is the question of Bogaerts position. Which is his best position? They say SS, but you never know if people are telling the truth. And if its SS, is it smart to stunt his defensive growth, even for a year? Its a debatable topic. If Bogaerts is best suited at 3rd base, then signing Drew long term is not only possible, but might be called for since our next SS in line is probably 2-3 years away.

    Finally is the question of a major injury. I think they force Cecchini up no matter who gets injured. His proffesional hitting approach likely makes him acceptable.

    But my main point is not really about if we sign Drew, but if we don't. Then what? A bunch of things to consider. First is what side of the plate for the SS to hit from? Since Pedroia, Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are all righties, a lefty SS is the obvious choice. This way you can rest each guy 5-15 games against righties and get potentially a lefty player of equal production to replace them.

    Second is the concern of a major fail. What if Middlebrooks mentally collapses with the bat? Or what if Bogaerts is simply unacceptable at SS defensively? Both are possible even though I like both players more then most. Its still possible. Then what? What if Bogaerts gets injured aswell? Doesn't the backup have to have SS starter potential? Who do they have in the minors? Holt is mostly a second baseman and he kind of sucks. Menses is not an option is he? And Merrero is a guy I really like, but he is 2 years away atleast isn't he?

    In free agency are Barmes, Santiago or McDonald really options? Both Barmes and Santiago have put up below 600 OPS each of the last two seasons and both are getting very old. And Barmes and McDonald hits righty. I don't see any real options in free agency that fits.

    I think if we don't sign Drew then we need to trade for a lefty hitting SS that could start if he had too. I think Gregorious is a possibility. Arizona is open to trading him because they have another SS they like even more. They are looking for a veteran starting pitcher. Also Peavy used to pitch in Arizona, just sayin.

    Gregorious is a lefty. His defense is good. He had a 704 OPS and 332 OB% last year with a reasonable 290 BABIP. He has an extreme split hitting 773 OPS against righties. He is also from the Netherlands so he might be friends with Bogaerts, which might help him accept a backup role. And since are next SS is at least 2 years away he could be around for at least that long.

    If we don't sign Drew, I think it would be extremely dangerous to not find a decent SS. Prefferably left handed.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think the bottom line is you have to stay w/ in budget and at some point trust (or try) your kids..........

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    It should be Bogaerts.  They need a backup utility IF who can play short.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    If we signed Drew, what's the most playing time Middy could realistically see barring any injuries?

     

    1) Drew sist vs all LH'd starter and Bogey plays SS: 250 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    2) Bogey rests vs some RHPs: 60 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    3) Napoli rests: 70 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    4) Papi rests and Napoli DHs: 80 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    Total: 460 PAs, but probably less because if Papi rests vs LHPs and so does Drew, Middy can only sub for one.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Well, i strongly think that Ben C. will only wait for one to two more weeks to see if Drew want to resign or keep taking his time because Ben C. need to address other position such as if he want Bradley at CF or keep Middlebrook at 3b or make a trade on one of the starting pitcher.  There is not a whole alot of time for Ben C to make these decision cuz the next month is January!!

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Bogaerts.  He is just about the best prospect in BB.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    I think Bogie is a no brainer, as was signaled when we traded Iggie.  This is a fait accompli!  There is no going back from this, and Bogie was determined to be THE successor.  Drew is not coming back, unless the bottom of his market has fallen out.  He will walk for a 2 - 3 yr deal elsewhere.  The Sox don't want him for a multi-year deal.  We do need a utility guy to back up Bogie.  The infield is set, I believe.  1st Naps, 2nd, SS Bogie, 3rd Middy.  Done!  Who will be the utility back up?  Not Drew.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts.  He is just about the best prospect in BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. But then who for the backup IF. I just don't think a right handed hitting scrub from FA is the answer.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Unless Drew comes back on a 1 year deal for less than the QO, say for half the amount like VTek... I don't see him coming back.

    To the OP... good thoughts about where this team lacks depth.  You made a strong argument and I think you picked out a good trade candidate with Gregorious as I never came close to thinking that.  Since we are hard up against the cap, I see the Sox being motivated to fill this need through trade that would include Holt to begin with back to the team giving us the player.  We need to dump a bit of salary and there is a 40 man crunch right now as we have 41 players.  Morales and Depster are the other two most commonly mentioned.

    I could see a move like that happening in the winter meetings next week.  I think they will also look for a guy that can do the same thing who can play all outfield positions.  They are very thin at centerfield depth. 

    Lottery ticket, Plan D:  We traded for Alex Castellanos last year and he looks like he could be a decent option for super utility guy if he started out hot.  He flunked his two other cups of coffee after good minor league numbers with power.

    http://soxprospects.com/players/castellanos-alex.htm

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we signed Drew, what's the most playing time Middy could realistically see barring any injuries?

     

    1) Drew sist vs all LH'd starter and Bogey plays SS: 250 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    2) Bogey rests vs some RHPs: 60 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    3) Napoli rests: 70 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    4) Papi rests and Napoli DHs: 80 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    Total: 460 PAs, but probably less because if Papi rests vs LHPs and so does Drew, Middy can only sub for one.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have a hard time seeing Drew signing to play only 110 games. He might not have a choice though.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    How do the Sox acquire Gregorius, whom the DBacks gave up Trevor Bauer for one year ago?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we signed Drew, what's the most playing time Middy could realistically see barring any injuries?

     

    1) Drew sist vs all LH'd starter and Bogey plays SS: 250 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    2) Bogey rests vs some RHPs: 60 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    3) Napoli rests: 70 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    4) Papi rests and Napoli DHs: 80 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    Total: 460 PAs, but probably less because if Papi rests vs LHPs and so does Drew, Middy can only sub for one.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox aren't going into the season with a plan to platoon, "rest" or move Middlebrooks or Boegarts around the infield.  There is zero chance of that happening.  If for some reason one or both of them really struggle the first couple of months, then they would be sent down. You don't develop players by platooning them at the big league level.  

    Last year, Bogaerts played 3rd out of necessity.  They would never "plan" to bounce around a kid with his talent.  Barring a long shot trade that includes Middlebrooks, they are likely going to sign a back up infielder for the left side of the infield and go with Boegarts at SS and Middlebrooks at 3rd. The Napoli signing ended whatever slim chance that there ever was of Middlebrooks playing first anytime soon.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to notin's comment:

    How do the Sox acquire Gregorius, whom the DBacks gave up Trevor Bauer for one year ago?




    My two hints about Peavy didn't answer your question? His stock has maybe held its level since being traded. He was rated 63-80 at the start of last season. We basically got Peavy for that kind of guy[Avisail Garcia-74]. If we had to throw in some flavor, we could do that too. I think its a fair offer.

    The premise is based on Arizona wanting to trade him, so his value would not be crazy high I don't think. Also, most thought Arizona lost the deal at the time and since then Bauer has lost some value. I currently rank Bauer only 59th.  My guess is that other rankings will be similar.

    And I am open to other ideas, not really desperate for Gregorius.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    I'm not sure Peavy is the most enticing target for a team that gave away one of their top ten prospects just so someone else could take over a contract less than half the size of Peavy's

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Hope we re-sign Drew and probably so does Pedroia, those two are in sync.  I think Middlebrooks is gone via trade.  I believe we'll end up with Stanton in left and Drew at short opening day 2014. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    I think Xander needs another 2 years in the minors, we don't want to risk hurting his confidence. Heck make it three years.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hope we re-sign Drew and probably so does Pedroia, those two are in sync.  I think Middlebrooks is gone via trade.  I believe we'll end up with Stanton in left and Drew at short opening day 2014. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Well I would support that. Stanton in LF, our future in place.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?


    Our infield is set. Naps, Pedey, Bogey, Middlebrooks. Gotta let the kids play at some point or they aren't kids any more. Bogey wants to play SS, let him play it. I would only have moved Bogey to third if Iggy was still here.

    RS got Napoli. No more Drew. Move on. Get a good defensive back-up infielder that can play multiple positions and call it a day.

    I would also start JBJ in center.

    I thought we would get Beltran, but that isn't happening.

    Barring a blockbuster for Trout/Stanton/McCucheon, we are pretty much done with the big signings for fielders. I think Ben looks for effective back-ups at this point.

    A two-for-one or three-for-one pitching upgrade will be made if one can be had.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Our infield is set. Naps, Pedey, Bogey, Middlebrooks. Gotta let the kids play at some point or they aren't kids any more. Bogey wants to play SS, let him play it. I would only have moved Bogey to third if Iggy was still here.

    RS got Napoli. No more Drew. Move on. Get a good defensive back-up infielder that can play multiple positions and call it a day.

    I would also start JBJ in center.

    I thought we would get Beltran, but that isn't happening.

    Barring a blockbuster for Trout/Stanton/McCucheon, we are pretty much done with the big signings for fielders. I think Ben looks for effective back-ups at this point.

    A two-for-one or three-for-one pitching upgrade will be made if one can be had.

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hope we re-sign Drew and probably so does Pedroia, those two are in sync.  I think Middlebrooks is gone via trade.  I believe we'll end up with Stanton in left and Drew at short opening day 2014. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I hope you're right about Drew.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Xander needs another 2 years in the minors, we don't want to risk hurting his confidence. Heck make it three years.

    [/QUOTE]

    He's only 21. What's the rush anyway?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we signed Drew, what's the most playing time Middy could realistically see barring any injuries?

     

    1) Drew sist vs all LH'd starter and Bogey plays SS: 250 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    2) Bogey rests vs some RHPs: 60 PAs for Middy at 3B.

    3) Napoli rests: 70 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    4) Papi rests and Napoli DHs: 80 PAs for Middy at 1B.

    Total: 460 PAs, but probably less because if Papi rests vs LHPs and so does Drew, Middy can only sub for one.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have a hard time seeing Drew signing to play only 110 games. He might not have a choice though.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, and that's one reason I don't see it happening. 

    I was just responding to the statement about finding Middy playing time.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not sure Peavy is the most enticing target for a team that gave away one of their top ten prospects just so someone else could take over a contract less than half the size of Peavy's

    [/QUOTE]

    notin, I have a few questions for you:

    1) Who can afford and would give us something useful for Peavy (like maybe a CF'er or SS)?

    2) Who might take Dempster + $2-4M in cash for a good utility IF'er, all glove SS, or a platoon CF'er who hits lefties well and can play plus defense in Fenway?

    3) Who could use a guy like Gomes and could take on his salary by giving us a cheap SS or CF'er?

    4) Is there any team that would take Dempster and Gomes with not salary relief? If yes, can we expect to get anything decent (prospect) and/or useful (ML player at SS or CF) in return?

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Ben clearly sees  Boegarts as the SS. That was made clear with the trade for Peavy. 

    Boegarts has done nothing to discourage the idea. He got some pressure situation starts at SS and did not look like a deer in the headlights in the field or at the plate.  It's been said before. IF he can play SS you maximize his value by playing him at SS. 
    I think Ben has decided he can do it. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: What to do at SS?

    Bogaerts should be given every opportunity to keep the shortstop job. But the mistake of trading Iglesias for Peavy will not go away any time soon. And , please don't tell me that Iglesias made two errors in the post season. So what.  And, please don't say that we don't win it without Peavy. That is simply not true. Let me add that Ben has made some really good moves. But trading Iglesias for Peavy was not one of them.  Now we have threads asking what to do at shortstop. 

     

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