Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bucky-dent. Show bucky-dent's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    shhhh don't you hear it. my team is banging on his door were gonna break it down. no not the yankees but but jacks tavern we need a pitcher ever since mike got hurt directing traffic at the race track last summer. course we are all hoping mike gets full disability from his pd. who ever knew there where so many bones in the foot anyway............. Timmy try outs will be in late march. we play 7innings if you are interested
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RLBurnside. Show RLBurnside's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Time to go Wake, time to go.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    ADG Stirring the POT.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Just like we could sign Wang for $1M. (He signed already for $4M.)

    I said to offer Wang 1M plus incentives, not what he would sign for. Wang was one of many to make low offers to. Wastefield is a joke, you out to lunch rainman.
     
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    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Weiland and Miller were never given a normal schedule in the regular rotation. Miller was quite decent on the road. Wastefield is a disgrace, and his agent begging and proimse to retire after another few million is enough to run him out of town on a rail!

    There are other veterans who are more capable for mop starter depth. Wastefield ceremonial tour needs to be ended. Cherington sounds as though he hears the increasing number of fans who are outraged over nearly 4M on Wastefield fiasco of 2011.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]Just like we could sign Wang for $1M. (He signed already for $4M.) 

    I said to offer Wang 1M plus incentives, not what he would sign for. Wang was one of many to make low offers to. Wastefield is a joke, you out to lunch rainman.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    And, I said to offer Dunn $36M/3, but that hasn't stopped you from saying I'd have paid him what he eventually signed for. 

    Typical "circle jerk".





     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Offering Dunn 36M and Wastefield and Varisuk 3 or 4M is you, circle jerk. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    It's amazing the type of attention that a #6/7 type of SP gets around here.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]Offering Dunn 36M and Wastefield and Varisuk 3 or 4M is you, circle jerk. 
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    I'd still rather have Dunn at $36M/3 than CC at $142M/7.  I never said $4M for Wake & Vtek. I said $1-1.5M each and VTek only if Papi walks. That's $3M tops.

    What's with your $12M, then $8M, then $16M offers for Papi. Round and round you go...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    That's $3M tops

    3M tops for Varisuk and Wastefield is a joke!

    My offers to Ortiz are 1 and 2 year sequenced, you Varisuk and Wastefield millions offering bird brain.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]Wake faded bad at the end, he gave little to save the season except a warm body to throw at the dogs.  Not one stinkin quality start down the stretch.  But this is old news. Wake did not do great "down the stretch", but to say he "faded" is not truly accurate. Wake surprisingly had the best Sept/Oct ERA out of all Sox starters (not saying much). His monthly ERA chart shows about his average performance over Aug-Sept: Apr  5.56 May 3.51 Jun 5.01 Jul  6.23 Aug 5.23 Sep 5.25 September records: Starter  GS   ERA  WHIP Wake    4     5.25    1.42 Bed       3     5.25    2.00 Lest      6      5.40    1.61 Beck     4      5.48    1.35 Weil     3      7.36    1.50 Lack    5       9.13     2.03 Mill      2     11.70    2.50
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon - All you are pointint out is that they all stunk. The guys that have to be brought back unfortunately, the Red Sox are stuck with. The other guys, such as Bedard, Wakefield and Miller should not be brought back. Any replacement player should be brought in. Why bring back:

    1. A 46 year old "innings eater" who compromises the catcher's abilities to catch balls cleanly and who will only get worse.
    2. Miller, who has now proven with three major league teams that he isn't really a major league pitcher.
    3. And Bedard who's got no "pelotas" to pitch in any pressure environment.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest : I'd still rather have Dunn at $36M/3 than CC at $142M/7.  I never said $4M for Wake & Vtek. I said $1-1.5M each and VTek only if Papi walks. That's $3M tops. What's with your $12M, then $8M, then $16M offers for Papi. Round and round you go...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon - Are you kidding me with Dunn? Where would he play? Did you see him hit this year? .161 I believe.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    No, he isn't kidding. He wanted Dunn for 3 years for over 30 million, and now wants Wastefield and Varitek for 3 million when neither will get more than a minor league contract invitation to spring training. I just pray some idiot GM other than Cherry, like Inepstein, loves fric and frac like Moonslow does.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest : moon - Are you kidding me with Dunn? Where would he play? Did you see him hit this year? .161 I believe.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    He'd have played in LF instead of CC, and he'd be gone 4 years before CC.

    (At least I admit when I made a mistake.)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest : Moon - All you are pointint out is that they all stunk. The guys that have to be brought back unfortunately, the Red Sox are stuck with. The other guys, such as Bedard, Wakefield and Miller should not be brought back. Any replacement player should be brought in. Why bring back: 1. A 46 year old "innings eater" who compromises the catcher's abilities to catch balls cleanly and who will only get worse. 2. Miller, who has now proven with three major league teams that he isn't really a major league pitcher. 3. And Bedard who's got no "pelotas" to pitch in any pressure environment.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    I don't want Miller or Bedard back... softy does.

    I'd rather not have Wake back, but I think we only will have about $8M to spend on about 5 positions before we get to the 6/7th starter. There may be some better options at $1M to $1.5M out there...or at least equal options. I'm fine with other options. My point is that Wake is just as good as about a 3rd of MLb starters each year, so getting him as our 6th starter is not going to keep us from winning. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    5.75M for Wastefield and Varitek was a mistake in 2011. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Your consecutive mistake count is now over 100.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Wakefield, at 1 - 1.5 million, would be good (and necessary) insurance.  If he/d sign for that, then I say do it.  Others who may be of equal value are not necessarily signing to play in Boston.  Just because you want them, it does not mean you will get them.  If you want them, then others do to, and you compete for their services.  Wake would prefer to pitch in Boston, so you have a much better shot at signing a serviceable 6th/7th starter and long man for the bullpen if you make an offer to Wake.

    As for the young guys.  You do not want to bring a promising young arm up, and utilize him the way the Sox use Wake.  That is no way to develop quality arms.  And they would be unhappy too, I can only imagine.  Whereas Wake accepts his role(s).

    As for the record.  I would like to see someone break it.  It pains me that Roger Clemens holds the record (along with Cy Young, who was not a Sox pitcher for even most of his career).  Eventually, maybe it is broken by a Lester or Buccholz, but Wake could do it, and I would be fine if he did.  There is no pitcher in recent years that is more deserving of taking the record away from the Roger, IMO.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest : That is samething if we all say what is wrong using Weiland, Tazwaza, Bowen, Droubmont, etc who are all cheap, versatile and will eat innings!!! Seriously, time to give these youngster a chance and try to improve themselves before they are either a waste of prospect or not.  More Boston continues to buy bunch of pitchings and fill up all the rotation spot especially with these former tommy john surgery pitchers, these youngsters will never give themselves a chance that if they are able to pitch at the major league level or not.   Look at all teams that have made into the playoff, half of their rotation are bunch of young kids such as Tigers, Rangers, Cardinals, Rays, Brewers, etc as well for some teams who didnt make into the playoff such as Angels, Bluejays, etc.   Come on guys....it is the time to say good bye to Wakefield!!
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    This comment makes no sense whatsoever.

    First of all, the Sox do have young farm system products in their rotation, such as Lester and Buchholz.  Secondly, these post-season examples all had worn out veterans in their rotation alongside the younger pitchers you focus on.  For example, Detroit used Brad Penny.  Is Brad Penny really a better option than Wakefield?  The Cardinals used Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse.     In fact, unlike Wakefield, all these guys were in the opening day rotation for their respective teams, and not pressed into the role by injuries. 

    I don't get how you can like the Brewers when they built their rotation the exact way you don't like.  They have a minor league journeyman (Chris Narveson), TWO recovering TJ arms (Marcum, Wolf), and a guy they unloaded the entire farm system for in Greinke.  The only young arm they "took a chance on" from their system is 29yo Yovanni Gallardo.

     

    Only the Rays had a rotation of young farm system starting pitchers.  Even the Rangers had a very weird rotation built on former relief pitchers (Wilson, Ogando), a Japanese rehab (Lewis), and two younger pitchers, only one of whom they drafted (Holland).   All these teams have guys like Doubront, Bowden, Weiland and Tazawa in their system, and all of them chose not to use these type of pitchers as starters.  How many starts did Eric Hurley make for the Rangers this past year?  Or Mark Rogers for the Brewers?

    And then I really don’t get why we need to bring up the teams that didn’t make the playoffs using this strategy.  Once you do that, you are pointing out that it actually isn’t a key to success.  So – why do it?

    I’m not saying Wakefield needs to come back, but I don’t see why people think his 5.00+ ERA was so much worse than Kyle Weiland and his 6.00+ ERA, coupled with his complete inability to last 5 full innings.   And I know Wakefield is 45 and not getting younger, let’s not pretend Weiland is 22 and can only get better.  He’ll be 26 next year, and this might be as good as he gets.  (And 45 is like 35 in knuckleballer years.)

    And for every fan who screams “give the kids a chance”, what exactly do you recommend as Plan B if/when the kids don’t work out?  If they don’t work out – which is a very realistic possibility – then  they make it tougher to trade for a quality replacement.  So if these 4 guys all fail or get hurt, then what?  Trying more and more kids, coupled with luck and wishful thinking?  Or is Plan B simply to wait until 2013 and then go sign more veteran help at top dollar?  We can all wait, right?

    Hint: The answer actually is in the pitching depth.  And that depth does come from getting one or two versatile arms like Wakefield who can fill in as needed.  Whether or not it is Wakefield himself is not important, but the Sox – and every team – are going to go through 7 to 10 SPs (or more) next year, and counting on Weiland, Doubront, Tazawa and Bowden as four of them is a receipe for disaster.

    Especially since none of these guys except maybe Doubront should ever be a starter again.  This is a middle relief corps.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    I'm not sure you should ban Tazawa, along with Weiland and Bowden, like you did.  He is coming off of TJ surgery and still should be given a chance to be a starter, IMO.  But you are right about Bowden and Weiland.  And I actually think Bowden could be a very serviceable 6th/7th inning reliever if given the right tutelage.  Weiland might benefit from a long relief role, also.  If he ever makes it as a Major Leaguer, it most likely will be as a reliever.

    The reason other teams pick up old scrap heap pitchers to be their 6th and 7th starters, instead of using their young and promising up an comers, is as I have stated.  You do not develop good starters by bring them up and bouncing them in and out of the rotation.  You let them start regularly in the minors and work on their mechanics and approach until they are ready to crack the rotation.  All this talk of Wake preventing the young guys from developing and advancing their careers is utter nonsense.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]I'm not sure you should ban Tazawa, along with Weiland and Bowden, like you did.  He is coming off of TJ surgery and still should be given a chance to be a starter, IMO.  But you are right about Bowden and Weiland.  And I actually think Bowden could be a very serviceable 6th/7th inning reliever if given the right tutelage.  Weiland might benefit from a long relief role, also.  If he ever makes it as a Major Leaguer, it most likely will be as a reliever. The reason other teams pick up old scrap heap pitchers to be their 6th and 7th starters, instead of using their young and promising up an comers, is as I have stated.  You do not develop good starters by bring them up and bouncing them in and out of the rotation.  You let them start regularly in the minors and work on their mechanics and approach until they are ready to crack the rotation.  All this talk of Wake preventing the young guys from developing and advancing their careers is utter nonsense.
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]

    I agree Wakefield isn't impeding anyone, but the Twins have had remarkable success starting pitchers out as relievers their first year in the majors and then turning them into starters....
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    As has Texas.  Just have never seen it in recent years with the Sox.  Usually the Sox turn their so-so MiL starters into relievers.  Cannot think of a situation where they brought up a young gun and used him out of the pen for a year, and then turned him into a successful starter, can you?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Wake would prefer to pitch in Boston, so you have a much better shot at signing a serviceable 6th/7th starter and long man for the bullpen if you make an offer to Wake.

    No, Wastefield has no market for 1M on a major league contract. You are bidding against yourself. And Wastefield has no choice but to beg for a contract and then pitifully proimise he will then retire. It is fools like you who admit it's about the stupid milestone of mediocrity nonsense.

    Red Sox can offer 1M to Francis, Bedard, Harden and numeous other veteran profiles, and one or two or even three of them will certainly take it.

    Wastefield is a 45 year old ceremonial embarrassment and was a leading factor in record collapse.

    I am optimistic that Cherry will end the ceremoinal old man frathouse in Boston, and Wastefield needs to be the first message to other non-performing old veteran parasites. Ortiz earned a market offer, Wastefield earned a no-tender.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    Poor Moonslob, his favorite player no longer has majority fan or GM support for a MLB contract. Wastefield is a disgrace and a parasite.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest

    In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are all the teams banging on Tim Wakefield's Door? A "15 game winner" should garner some interest : This comment makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, the Sox do have young farm system products in their rotation, such as Lester and Buchholz.  Secondly, these post-season examples all had worn out veterans in their rotation alongside the younger pitchers you focus on.  For example, Detroit used Brad Penny.  Is Brad Penny really a better option than Wakefield?  The Cardinals used Jake Westbrook and Kyle Lohse.     In fact, unlike Wakefield, all these guys were in the opening day rotation for their respective teams, and not pressed into the role by injuries.  I don't get how you can like the Brewers when they built their rotation the exact way you don't like.  They have a minor league journeyman (Chris Narveson), TWO recovering TJ arms (Marcum, Wolf), and a guy they unloaded the entire farm system for in Greinke.  The only young arm they "took a chance on" from their system is 29yo Yovanni Gallardo.   Only the Rays had a rotation of young farm system starting pitchers.  Even the Rangers had a very weird rotation built on former relief pitchers (Wilson, Ogando), a Japanese rehab (Lewis), and two younger pitchers, only one of whom they drafted (Holland).   All these teams have guys like Doubront, Bowden, Weiland and Tazawa in their system, and all of them chose not to use these type of pitchers as starters.  How many starts did Eric Hurley make for the Rangers this past year?  Or Mark Rogers for the Brewers? And then I really don’t get why we need to bring up the teams that didn’t make the playoffs using this strategy.  Once you do that, you are pointing out that it actually isn’t a key to success.  So – why do it? I’m not saying Wakefield needs to come back, but I don’t see why people think his 5.00+ ERA was so much worse than Kyle Weiland and his 6.00+ ERA, coupled with his complete inability to last 5 full innings.   And I know Wakefield is 45 and not getting younger, let’s not pretend Weiland is 22 and can only get better.  He’ll be 26 next year, and this might be as good as he gets.  (And 45 is like 35 in knuckleballer years.) And for every fan who screams “give the kids a chance”, what exactly do you recommend as Plan B if/when the kids don’t work out?  If they don’t work out – which is a very realistic possibility – then  they make it tougher to trade for a quality replacement.  So if these 4 guys all fail or get hurt, then what?  Trying more and more kids, coupled with luck and wishful thinking?  Or is Plan B simply to wait until 2013 and then go sign more veteran help at top dollar?  We can all wait, right? Hint: The answer actually is in the pitching depth.  And that depth does come from getting one or two versatile arms like Wakefield who can fill in as needed.  Whether or not it is Wakefield himself is not important, but the Sox – and every team – are going to go through 7 to 10 SPs (or more) next year, and counting on Weiland, Doubront, Tazawa and Bowden as four of them is a receipe for disaster. Especially since none of these guys except maybe Doubront should ever be a starter again.  This is a middle relief corps.
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post, notin.

    For those thatb think we can easily sign guys like Bedard, Francis & Harden for $1M, they are dreaming. We might be able to get Webb  for close to that, but it's not a certainty by any means.

    Bedard is a much better pitcher than Wake, but can we really count on him to give us innings and stay healthy? He has just 54 starts over the last 4 seasons (14 per year).

    Harden has a higher ERA than Wake for 2010-2011 combined, and he played a lot of those games in Oakland, Seattle, and Anahiem (all pitcher's parks). He also has just 33 starts the past 2 years.

    Francis had an ERA over 5.00 this year, but has been more durable than the other options.

    All-in-all, if these 3 guys go for between $2.5 & 4.5M per year each, I'd just as soon have Wake at $1.5M and use the leftover cash to get a better releiver, RF'er or DH.

     

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