Where should Ellsbury bat?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Where should Ellsbury bat?

    DISCLAIMER: I went through and deleted every post I put in this thread but my thanks to jbay because I'm so UTTERLY SICK of the vitriol directed at Carl Crawford, and I'm equally sick of posters not completely reading what I said in the OP below, and reacting half cocked. Nowhere do I say that Ellsbury SHOULD be moved, it was only a friendly discussion, and I'm heartily sorry that I brought it up. Andrewmitch? You have got some serious issues my man, and I think you need therapy. And all you guys saying Crawford should be batting ninth but NEVER first don't seem to realize that the batting order does not end with number nine, and that one bats behind nine. In other words, he'd be batting in front of Ellsbury three or four times a game. Go figure. If you're going to pour out bile, at least be consistent about it and bat him seventh. First, Softy, I'm assuming he's going to be here next year, so stay away. Where should he bat? I still lean toward leadoff, but if he continues to show the power, would third or fourth be an option? This has some appeal against RH pitchers. Having Gonzalez behind him or vice versa could be interesting. That would free Crawford up for one or two, if he could handle it. Part of this includes the idea that Crawford will rebound, andrewmitch, and I think he will.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Dude, you lost me at Crawford batting first or second.  You realize his OBP isn't even .300 let alone his BA, right?  TWO EIGHT NINE.....dude, that is maybe a 9 hole hitter IF he play could Shortstop and ONLY if he could play Shortstop like Ozzie Smith.......But even guys like Rey Ordonez don't keep their jobs with a 2-8-9 O B P....let alone a Left Fielder with hands of stone and who has absolutely no concept of what it means to hit the cut-off man.........Seriously, every time there is a pop-up to left field now I have shades of Lupes running through my head.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Crawford may have batted 2nd in Tampa but that is totally different.  Does Tampa have Ortiz, AGone, Youk, Ellsbury, Pedey?

    His career OBP is still .350 at best.  And that is on average.  You do realize that old Carl did not bat 2nd versus Lefties, right?  He batted 7th or 8th and still on a team that did not feature Ortiz, AGone, Youk, Ellsbury or Pedey. 

    Even if he bounces back what do you think a realistic OBP for him would be?   .333 would be a nice bounce back.  And still that is like 7th vs RHSP's and 9th vs LHSP's.

    It is absurb to even consider batting Crawford anywhere above 7th at this point in time.  If he tears the cover off the ball in ST then OK you could mention it.  But for now, I suggest all Crawford lovers, like DJ lovers, LAY LOW!!!!!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Then keep it about Ellsbury.  Do not mention Crawford. 

    Ellsbury should bat lead off.  We know how that works.......JE, DP, AG, KY, DO....etc......

    If you want him batting 3rd then who bats lead off?  DP but DP doesn't like that so that means that MS would have to be hot maybe RK can do it (doubtful)...let's go w/ MS

    MS, DP, JE, KY, AG, DO.......that's not bad since it stretches out the line up but you do have AG and DO back to back and I am not sure I like that plus Marco is a downgrade of course........

    Like Bard and Aceves, why mess with success?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Yes, Ellsbury would be more "productive" in the 3 or 4 hole.  ANYONE would be more productive batting 3rd or 4th by the simple default fact you would have more chances to be productive.  That aside, you can't do this in a vacuum the way that Theo just got Crawful and thought he could fit into the batting order.  With the current roster, Jake bats lead off.  But make no mistake about it, in 2 years Boras will be marketing Ellsbury as a #3 hole hitter.

    Now, there will be some Sunday games (where guys get off days) where Ellsbury will and should bat 3rd.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    So you take the guy with the WORST OBP on the team last year and slide him into the lead off hole?

    Your assumption that he will be better next year is correct.  I believe he will be better than 2 8 9 O B P next year.  But I got news for you:  Even an OBP of THREE AND A QUAKE don't get you in the top 5 on a 178 million dollar power house in the AL East.  That may fly in Houston but not in Boston.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    anyways, I think you answered your own question - with no one better suited to bat leadoff, JE stays right where he is.
     
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    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Lupes should be lucky if BV continues to keep him in the starting line up next year. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Wait, what do you mean by USUAL?  Or "the old Carl Crawford" ?  Is that from using historic numbers?  I thought you said we couldn't do that???
     
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    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    You could try the following:

    DP
    JE - bat him 2nd, Pedey could be a table setter for him
    KY
    AG
    DO

    but still, in this line up, unless something weird happens during the season, why mess with success?  Jake may decline in HR's but his BA and Speed will still be there......
     
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    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": LOL......NOW I think you're beginning to understand! You're a piece of work AM! :-) So again, IF CC goes back to his .300 70 SB self, would it help the team to move him up, and move Ellsbury down?
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Dude, LUPES has NEVER EVER had a 70 steal season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Look at his career as a whole, not just last year. That's what I mean. He's more likely to find himself than not, which, again, raises the question about the batting order.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Right, you want a guy w/ a career OBP of only 350 (and if 2011 was only an aberation he is at the very least on the decline) and a guy who can't lefties batting lead off.  Sorry, ain't gonna cut it if you want to go into the playoffs.  Bat Lupes 9th and hope for the best.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": Sure. That's why the op added the proviso that his power numbers held steady.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    What's realistic is that Jake's power #'s will go down and that Carl will break the 300 OBP Barrier.  But you still have a guy who can hit lefties and righties equally and get on base at a 380 clip who can bat lead off and a guy who has a 310 OBP who can't hit lefties batting 9th where he belongs and who, in all honestly lives for the 1st and the 15th.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": I don't have his baseball card in front of me AM. You know what I mean. What then? 60? 55? Whatever his normal SB production was in TB--which was a lot more than the 20 something he stole last year.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    But you are on line, no?

    Even his 50-60 SB days are WAY behind him.

    It's more like 40 at best and that assumes that he could crack the 333 OPB Plateu.  NOT BLOODY LIKELY.  Look for him to be at 30 next year and that would be a heck of a rebound season.  As far as the BA?  His days of flirting w/ 300 are well behind him as well.  275 is far more realistic but that is only if BV does the right thing and has him riding pine vs LHSP's......
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": LOL......NOW I think you're beginning to understand! You're a piece of work AM! :-) So again, IF CC goes back to his .300 70 SB self, would it help the team to move him up, and move Ellsbury down?
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    300/70?  That's Ellsbury!  300/60 is Crawford when he was a much younger man and in his prime.

    The problem could be that in Tampa, CC was one of the better hitters in the line up.  So opposing pitchers sometimes pitched around him and thus he walked more; driving up both his BA and OBP and of course SB's.  Now that he is in a better line up, pitchers are going right after him.  No more free passes.  Lupes has to earn his way on base.  And he can't handle it.  It seems as though he wasn't as good a hitter as we thought he was.  He was better off staying in a weaker line up.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Uh yeah, have you been asleep?  Of course Lupes is my new Nancy Drew.

    I stated with certainty that Nancy Drew was a bad signing and I was proven right.  So if you like analogies (like your Curtis Granderson one) then you should also appreciate what I am seeing in and saying about Lupes.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    PS - compared to Lupes, I would take Nancy Drew in a freak-in HEART BEAT!!!!!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    You like analogies huh?  RE:  Nancy Drew.......

    How about his 300 BA before coming to Boston?  He hit 300 in the past and averaged 265 or so w/ the Sox

    How about his 90 RBI's?  He had 100 RBI before Boston and couldn't crack the 64 - that's a 6-4 barrier w/ the Sox.

    How about the 31 HR's Drew hit before coming to Boston? He only averaged 16 per year in Boston.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": That doesn't always track. The only guy that would matter was who is behind him. Some guy four or five spots away has little effect. In TB that was Evan Longoria behind him, who's basically as good as any we have here. There are a lot of ways to look at things, and I hope Carl Crawford doesn't see himself the way you see him.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Longoria was only there for the last 2 or 3 years w/ CC.  What about the other 5 years?  The fact of the matter is he wasn't challenged by pitchers in Tampa the way he is challenged in Boston.  And he can't handle it.  The stats support that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    First, Nancy Drew was very week in Years 1, 4, and 5.  He was good in Years 2 and 3.  Please do not forget about his weak year in Year 1.  Please do not say it was just his last 2 years he was bad.  Albeit that would still be 40% of his contract.

    Moving on......why do you get to make analogies w/ Granderson but I can't make analogies with Crawford?

    Look, IF IF IF Lupes tears the cover off the ball in ST or if MS does the same, then you can move Jake.  You are getting way ahead of yourself.  There is no replacement in LO now and chances are Jake won't bash 35 HR's again. 

    Now, I did say in 2 years he will be marketed as a #3 and he will get some starts in the 3 hole w/ the Sox but he should remain in LO.  And Lupes should be batting 9th.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    In Response to Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?": No, in fact I don't get it at all. The Drew signing wasn't bad until the last two years, and that contract has now run it's course. We see it in it's entirety. Were talking about what CC has done after one year, compared to what Grandeson did after one year, projecting by that example that it's possible for a player to improve after his first year. We won't know if the projection fit CC til the end of 2012, so no, the Drew comparison doesn't yet fit.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    YET?  Good.  I am glad we can agree that the Nancy Drew signing was pathetic.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Maybe the real name of the thread should be "Where does Lupes bat?"

    Assuming he makes the team and assuming he makes it as a starter, he should bat 9th.

    Any guy who makes Darnell MacDonald and JD Drew look good should get the Posada treatment but unlike Georgie, keep his mouth shut about it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    the problem with CC is that he has to hit .315, steal 60 bases, score 100 runs and hit 20 home runs just to remotely MAKE UP FOR 2011's debacle. My opinion of his defense isn't far off from andymitch. He is a terrible fit for Sox now, then, 2 years ago, 2 years from now. Epstein left the franchise paying for this very sensitive, deer-in-headlights OF for a long time for a lot of cash.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    You lost me at "we don't win the WS without Drew"

    270/11/64 - really?

    Oh, wait are you refering to the GS?  Wow.  You realize that was an 11-2 win with the greatest post season pitcher in the history of baseball on the hill.  While you are at it why not say we don't win the WS without Bobby Kielty either?  Afterall, he had one good AB in the PS that year too.....
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Where should Ellsbury bat?

    Lead off vs 9th?  The Same?  Really?

    Look at the # of annual PA's for a lead off hitter vs a #9 hitter.  There's a reason why one guy bats lead off and another bats 9th - you want to give the better hitter more chances and you want to keep as many AB's away from the Lupe's of the world.
     

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