Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    Tampa is resilient & they are not going away easily. Cobb actually pitched a better game than Moore & Price. Ok, we lacked key hits. Pedroia & Drew screwing up a DP. We should have walked Longonria but when the first pitch was a strike or foul I knew we'd go after him. Still should have given him little to hit and suffer a walk if he didn't bite. Shouldn't have replaced Ortiz and he would have come up in the 9th with a man on. I admit I'm a bit Monday morning Quarterback on walking Longoria & taking Ortiz out. But, where are our HR hitters, Napoli, Salty(strikeout machine), Gomes, Nava, Carp & Milddlebrooks ? And even Pedroia, Victorino ,Ellsbury & Drew can reach the fence.

    I really am afraid of this team & do not want to return to Fenway to face Price & Moore in relief. Don't want to make Madden prophetic. I honestly say I will not feel as bad if we lose to the A's or Tigers.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    Tampa is resilient & they are not going away easily. Cobb actually pitched a better game than Moore & Price. Ok, we lacked key hits. Pedroia & Drew screwing up a DP. We should have walked Longonria but when the first pitch was a strike or foul I knew we'd go after him. Still should have given him little to hit and suffer a walk if he didn't bite. Shouldn't have replaced Ortiz and he would have come up in the 9th with a man on. I admit I'm a bit Monday morning Quarterback on walking Longoria & taking Ortiz out. But, where are our HR hitters, Napoli, Salty(strikeout machine), Gomes, Nava, Carp & Milddlebrooks ? And even Pedroia, Victorino ,Ellsbury & Drew can reach the fence.

    I really am afraid of this team & do not want to return to Fenway to face Price & Moore in relief. Don't want to make Madden prophetic. I honestly say I will not feel as bad if we lose to the A's or Tigers.



    First of all, you are all looking at right handed hitters facing Cobb.  It is harder to hit a HR against Cobb than Moore or Price.  

    IF you going to look at bonehead plays for the Red Sox, Tampa also made bonehead plays from game #1 to game #3.   

    That is part of the game.  Playing tight game isnt that easy to do.  If the game is tight again tonite, I just hope Tampa just make more bonehead plays than Boston!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    No way Pedey and Drew turn a DP there....IF IF IF Drew didn't slide (assuming he did it b/c Pedey was there) he would have had to go to first because the runner was already on top of 2b.......I don't know why every says that was a DP ??

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    No way Pedey and Drew turn a DP there....IF IF IF Drew didn't slide (assuming he did it b/c Pedey was there) he would have had to go to first because the runner was already on top of 2b.......I don't know why every says that was a DP ??




    Agreed, the only play was at first. Also, I don't think it was necessarily anyone's fault, just two middle infielders going for a ball up the middle.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    Also, this loss just ticks me off more than anything because we screwed it up.  I'm not worried  about the series ... to quote Otter in Animal House,  we'll take these bastards.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    No way Pedey and Drew turn a DP there....IF IF IF Drew didn't slide (assuming he did it b/c Pedey was there) he would have had to go to first because the runner was already on top of 2b.......I don't know why every says that was a DP ??



    Or Drew may not even get a out at 1b.  Remember the ball was hitted in the middle of the field where that is a highly a hit for anyone.  That batter, Esocobar, who got that hit and ran to 1st is a fast runner.

    So I just think it was just a perfectly hit by Esocobar.  Maybe Bucholtz should have made that play by trying to put the glove up or use his leg cuz that ball wasnt hit hard instead blaming on drew or pedy

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    No way Pedey and Drew turn a DP there....IF IF IF Drew didn't slide (assuming he did it b/c Pedey was there) he would have had to go to first because the runner was already on top of 2b.......I don't know why every says that was a DP ??

     




    Agreed, the only play was at first. Also, I don't think it was necessarily anyone's fault, just two middle infielders going for a ball up the middle.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup, hard play.....In general though, Pedey should not had crossed the bag and known where Drew was playing and left it alone...Just covered 2B for a possible toss there.........Similar w/ Nap - you have to know when to hold your ground.....to have it happen 2x like that is very rare......You may never see that happen from Pedey again.........Naps is a concern - WHERE HAVE YOU GONE, DOUG MIENTKIEWICZ????

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    No way Pedey and Drew turn a DP there....IF IF IF Drew didn't slide (assuming he did it b/c Pedey was there) he would have had to go to first because the runner was already on top of 2b.......I don't know why every says that was a DP ??

     



    Or Drew may not even get a out at 1b.  Remember the ball was hitted in the middle of the field where that is a highly a hit for anyone.  That batter, Esocobar, who got that hit and ran to 1st is a fast runner.

     

    So I just think it was just a perfectly hit by Esocobar.  Maybe Bucholtz should have made that play by trying to put the glove up or use his leg cuz that ball wasnt hit hard instead blaming on drew or pedy

    [/QUOTE]


    yes, it was an infield hit, plain and simple


    The Napoli play was more disturbing on the bunt

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    I actually think Napoli has been a pleasant surprise at first base, but he butchered that play. I'm sure he knows it.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    I actually think Napoli has been a pleasant surprise at first base, but he butchered that play. I'm sure he knows it.

     




    Right, I agree.  But we ain't talking about past performance.  We are talking about that play.  I believe a veteran 1B knows to hold his ground there. 

    What I want to know is where is the COMMUNICATION?  Drew and Pedey not talking and Morales and Naps not talking?  If Naps was going for it he should had SHOUTED THAT OUT.  Then, the pitcher makes a BEE LINE to cover 1B - they would had gotten him that way too.  So Naps mistake would had been erased had he just opened his big mouth.  I think the beard is getting in his way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    Let's not try to spin it , guys.  The infield play in the 8th was horrible.  Pitching to Longoria was asinine. Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition. We should have won that game and ended  the series. We blew it. Only thing to do now is forget it and end this thing tonight. Sox have bounced back from bad losses all year. Time to do it again.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Let's not try to spin it , guys.  The infield play in the 8th was horrible.  Pitching to Longoria was asinine. Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition. We should have won that game and ended  the series. We blew it. Only thing to do now is forget it and end this thing tonight. Sox have bounced back from bad losses all year. Time to do it again.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    I have no problem with the other stuff, but Farrell NEVER should have allowed Longoria to see a strike. He IS their offense, for the most part. Myers has been an appendix. Yes, Pedey probably should have covered second instead of going for the ground ball that Drew got to, but its hard to fault him for hustling. Farrell lost this game. I hope he realizes that and learns from it: do NOT allow Longoria to beat us again.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Let's not try to spin it , guys.  The infield play in the 8th was horrible.  Pitching to Longoria was asinine. Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition. We should have won that game and ended  the series. We blew it. Only thing to do now is forget it and end this thing tonight. Sox have bounced back from bad losses all year. Time to do it again.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    I have no problem with the other stuff, but Farrell NEVER should have allowed Longoria to see a strike. He IS their offense, for the most part. Myers has been an appendix. Yes, Pedey probably should have covered second instead of going for the ground ball that Drew got to, but its hard to fault him for hustling. Farrell lost this game. I hope he realizes that and learns from it: do NOT allow Longoria to beat us again.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Sometimes hustle is wrong - like when you are supposed to cover a bag (see Naps!)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    This is a dubious point.  The bunt there wasn't necessarily 'playing for a tie'.  It moved the tying run to third, the go-ahead run to second and it removed the double play.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    I haven't seen anyone mention Napoli blowing the play in the bottom of the 8th.Bases were loaded with 1 out and tied score,he fielded a ground ball and he wasn't sure what to do with it.He looked towards second,then towards home and ended up allowing the run to score as he stepped on first,when he should have immediately thrown the ball home to stop the "go-ahead" run.

    When he fielded it,I believe he thought about a 3-6-3 double play to end the inning,decided not to play it that way,which allowed the score from 3rd because of his hesitation.If he went straight to home,he would have gotten the runner. 

    Although he's played a pretty good 1st base this year,that was a mistake that a veteran 1st baseman normally wouldn't make.

     

     

     

     "Another day closer to the parade"

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    I haven't seen anyone mention Napoli blowing the play in the bottom of the 8th.Bases were loaded with 1 out and tied score,he fielded a ground ball and he wasn't sure what to do with it.He looked towards second,then towards home and ended up allowing the run to score as he stepped on first,when he should have immediately thrown the ball home to stop the "go-ahead" run.

    When he fielded it,I believe he thought about a 3-6-3 double play to end the inning,decided not to play it that way,which allowed the score from 3rd because of his hesitation.If he went straight to home,he would have gotten the runner. 

    Although he's played a pretty good 1st base this year,that was a mistake that a veteran 1st baseman normally wouldn't make.

     

     

     

     "Another day closer to the parade"




    There was a good chance he doesn't throw the runner out.  At least this way he recorded an out.

    The real goof he made was on the bunt.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    This is a dubious point.  The bunt there wasn't necessarily 'playing for a tie'.  It moved the tying run to third, the go-ahead run to second and it removed the double play.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Still, it is giving up an out. Basically , you are hoping to score one. I let Shane swing away. Go for the inning. Who knows what might have happened? As shaky as Rodney was, he might have walked or hit Shane. We could have blown the game open. That's just the way I look at it. I do not like the sac bunt in general, and even less in this situation.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    Let's not try to spin it , guys.  The infield play in the 8th was horrible.  Pitching to Longoria was asinine. Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition. We should have won that game and ended  the series. We blew it. Only thing to do now is forget it and end this thing tonight. Sox have bounced back from bad losses all year. Time to do it again.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     



    I have no problem with the other stuff, but Farrell NEVER should have allowed Longoria to see a strike. He IS their offense, for the most part. Myers has been an appendix. Yes, Pedey probably should have covered second instead of going for the ground ball that Drew got to, but its hard to fault him for hustling. Farrell lost this game. I hope he realizes that and learns from it: do NOT allow Longoria to beat us again.

     

     




    Sometimes hustle is wrong - like when you are supposed to cover a bag (see Naps!)

     



    Its certainly debateable. But allowing their best hitter to hit a HR to tie the game was just STUPID IMO. You are right: Pedroia should have just covered second base. And Napoli should have covered first on his mistake play too. Pinch running for Ortiz was fine IMO: we got the lead run to scoring position with nobody out with three shots at a base hit to get him in. And I have no problem with Vic bunting in the ninth to get the tying and lead runs into scoring position with Pedroia coming up. But pitching to Longoria was a blunder, and worse, Farrell doesn't even realize it. He will do it again. Thats scary. Bill Belichick always tries to take away the other team's most potent offensive weapon. Bill Belichick is a very good coach. Farrell could learn from him.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Also, this loss just ticks me off more than anything because we screwed it up.  I'm not worried  about the series ... to quote Otter in Animal House,  we'll take these bastards.

     




    +1

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    Very tough play but I actually think Pedey should've covered the bag on the bunt. Why? Because Jennings showed his hand on the previous pitch. Pedey should've been cheating and had his momentum going to first.

    It is arguable that Napoli should have read that better, but if Morales doesn't get there and Napoli goes back to the bag the ball just rolls onto the infield dirt. Naps would never hear the end of it.

    There is no way Napoli throws out the Fuld at home. He made the right play going to first.

    Pedey was out of control crossing second base getting in Drew's way. Period. No it wasn't a DP (whoever thinks that is nuts).

    Finally, I agree with just about everyone who has stated Farrell is the real goat. Get em tonight!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    Shane sac bunting was dumb small ball. Playing for a tie on the road is a losing proposition.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     



    This is a dubious point.  The bunt there wasn't necessarily 'playing for a tie'.  It moved the tying run to third, the go-ahead run to second and it removed the double play.

     

     

     




    Still, it is giving up an out. Basically , you are hoping to score one. I let Shane swing away. Go for the inning. Who knows what might have happened? As shaky as Rodney was, he might have walked or hit Shane. We could have blown the game open. That's just the way I look at it. I do not like the sac bunt in general, and even less in this situation.

     




    I had no problem with the bunt....though I think Vic shouldnt have been thinking to get the ball past Rodney and make Rodriquez field it, since he was playing out of position....he almost got it Rodneys way in fielding it....with the defensive alignment Maddon had in the game there was possible screwup all over the place on that bunt.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    There was a good chance he doesn't throw the runner out.  At least this way he recorded an out.

    The real goof he made was on the bunt.



    Damn, Mitch, we're agreeing a lot today. It looked to me that Napoli didn't have a chance to get Fuld, who had a terrific jump, at home.

    That 8th inning was a shop of  horrors.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    There was a good chance he doesn't throw the runner out.  At least this way he recorded an out.

    The real goof he made was on the bunt.

     



    Damn, Mitch, we're agreeing a lot today. It looked to me that Napoli didn't have a chance to get Fuld, who had a terrific jump, at home.

     

    That 8th inning was a shop of  horrors.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think since I've come back to the boards, you've been able to benefit from my wisdom!!!!!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

    There was a good chance he doesn't throw the runner out.  At least this way he recorded an out.

    The real goof he made was on the bunt.

     



    Damn, Mitch, we're agreeing a lot today. It looked to me that Napoli didn't have a chance to get Fuld, who had a terrific jump, at home.

     

    That 8th inning was a shop of  horrors.

     

     





     

    Agree.  Fuld is fast, the ball was not that hard hit and to Napoli's left, which means he has to turn himself around to make a throw to get anything on it.   A left first sacker might have had a shot, a righty none.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Why did we lose, let me count the ways......

    Much ado about nothing. 

    Walking Longoria would have allowed Buch to walk Myers (which he did anyway) and give a two run single to Zobrist, which would have tied the score.  The problem in the 5th was Buch was tired, but no one was available in the bullpen, so Farrell had a tough decision on whether to pitch to Longoria.  I think the Rays tie the game either way--a dinger to Longoria or a walk, a walk, and a single.

    Napoli had a tough choice on that grounder.  He was going toward 1B when he grabbed the ball, so thowing home was going to be dicey.  If his throw is late, the run still scores, the bases are loaded, and the Rays only have one out.  A big inning was possible.

    The collision in the 8th inning was one of those things, plus I'm not sure Drew gets an out anyway.

    Pinch-running for Ortiz was the right move because it put a man on 2B with nobody out in a tie game in the 7th inning.  

    The Sox had two runners, Ellsbury and Berry, tagged out but called safe as was evident from the replays.  Both of them scored runs.  That kind of balances what I thought were strike/ball calls that favored Tampa. 

    The proximate cause of the defeat was the Uehara gopher ball to Lobaton, a huge surprise to everyone.  Without that dinger, the Sox go to the 10th with two long relievers, Dempster and Doubront, left in the bullpen and a decent lineup.  But the Sox were a little lucky to get two of the four runs. 

    I thought it was a very exciting game.  I hated the outcome, but was riveted for roughly almost 4 hours.  I thought the Sox played extremely well in all three games.  Was it last night when Napoli grabbed a liner and found Drew, who had started in the deep SS position, about to cross 2B for a double play?  Very head play by both players.  Given what Pedroia brings to the defense, tripping occasionally is entirely forgiveable.  Ditto Napoli on that non-throw home or the bunt which became a Rays single.  He has played a solid 1B this year. 

    And this.  Why is it always obligatory to give absolutely no credit to the other team when the Sox lose?  That is, why is it always the fault of the Sox players and/or manager? 

    Note to RSN:  the Sox lost 2 out of every 5 games this season, and in the second half of the season the Rays played our guys tough, to say nothing of winning two wild card games to get to the ALDS.  In the ALDS to date, the Sox win by 10 and then by 3, but lose by 1 and are instantly a bunch of stupid stumblebums. 

     

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