Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannyortez3424. Show mannyortez3424's posts

    Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...


    This team will not win anything this year...

    Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...

    The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...

    Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...

    But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...

    I am interested in your guys' takes...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to mannyortez3424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't understand the fascination with keeping Ellsbury around unless you want the draft pick...


    This team will not win anything this year...

    Also, by all accounts, Jacoby is already as good as gone...

    The Indians just got Trevor Bauer for Sin Soo Choo and a decent SS prospect...

    Obviously, Ellsbury is a much better player when healthy, though would be much harder to re-sign...

    But that shouldn't stop Cherington from trying to trade him because there is no reason to keep him around as his value will depreciate once the year starts...

    I am interested in your guys' takes...

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Ells but I would have no problem dealing him at all if the deal is right.

    Of course I would say that about anyone.  It's a catch-22 as if he has a good year the Red Sox would have a hard time signing him in the off season and if he has a bad year they should have traded him while his value was high.

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    I would like to keep him......I think he will have a great year this year. I just don't think the Sox will be able to sign him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    I think the RS should ship him to Texas for Andrus and one of their top pitching prospects.  Texas is in need of a CF and a leadoff hitter.  Boston would love to put Andrus with Peddy for the next couple years.  While developing another arm in a ever building farm system.

    Texas has the money to resign Ellsbury long term, and boston finally has a SS they can see play for more then a year.  

    Victorino could play CF till Bradley is ready and Swisher could be signed to play RF.

    Thats an overall better team then what they have now.

    On a related note, ship Iglesias to Miami for a bullpen arm.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    Because he has shown he can be a great CF. Injuries have curtailed that ability.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    Not a faciination as much as a dilemma.   To trade Ellsbury now they would likely be selling low on him, coming off a down season with just one year left on his contract (also a Boras client).  They probably hold on to him - if he can bounce back and have a good first half he may be worth more at the deadline.  Or, if he bounces back and the Red Sox are competing for a playoff spot, their chances are much better with Ellsbury in the line-up.  Of course, if someone approaches the Red Sox and makes a really good offer now they will have something to think about.  I could be wrong, but I don't see that happening at this point.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to keep him......I think he will have a great year this year. I just don't think the Sox will be able to sign him.

    [/QUOTE]


    not sure how relevant that is but

    why does RSN keep saying that

    is it because of a cash flow problem

    or does he really hate being a red sox

    [/QUOTE]

    It depends on who you ask, Zac, but regardless, I would imagine someone will offer him more than the Red Sox in FA.  I suspect he does not love Boston enough to leave any cash on the table.   ;)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    Ellsburys trade appeal right now is probably limited to Texas and Atlanta.   He is not as good as Choo but options are getting limited.   Forget aboutAndrus. Texas would not trade him for 3years of Upton.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No fascination here. He should be shipped out in a pool of players that nets the DBAcks what they want for J. Upton. That pool should be:

    Ellsbury and his draft compensation (to a team like Texas or Atlanta to send a player like Holland to AZ)

    De La Rosa or Webster

    Brentz (subtract Brentz and insert Bogaerts if needed to top other offers)

    Any other prospect from the farm except Barnes and Bradley, Jr.

    Total 4 prospects should close the deal and get the parties what they want. Ellsbury is not a fit for the Red Sox with nearly 40M unloeaded on Shane who is truly a value joke in RF. Ellsbury is a fit for the Braves or the Rangers and allows them a trial run before deciding to bid on him in FA. J. Upton fits best in LF for the Red Sox, long term.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This is not even close to what AZ wants, but keep convincing yourself it is, then bash Ben for not making your fantasy trade come true (see your Kemp dream).

    They may take Bradley, Bogaerts, Doubront, Aceves, and one of  de la Rosa/Owens, but maybe not.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    I really wish Softlaw was GM of the Diamondbacks.

     

    We could get 3 years of Upton and only give up one year of Ellsbury, Bryce Brentz (whose appeal as a prospect extends very little beyond this website), Allen Webster and his stamina or lack thereof, and a prospect outside the top 5.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    I want to keep Ellsbury because he is the best player on the team.

    Not that hard to understand.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from elvis-surfs. Show elvis-surfs's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    you are all invited over for a beverage or two as soon as this wee wee is gone...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I want to keep Ellsbury because he is the best player on the team.

    Not that hard to understand.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dustin Pedroia is a better player than Ellsbury.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I want to keep Ellsbury because he is the best player on the team.

    Not that hard to understand.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dustin Pedroia is a better player than Ellsbury.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Not anymore.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I want to keep Ellsbury because he is the best player on the team.

    Not that hard to understand.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Dustin Pedroia is a better player than Ellsbury.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Not anymore.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ummm, actually yes.  Pedroia was much better in 2012, and his 2011 was nearly as good as Ellsbury's, and 2011 is the only year in Ellsbury's career that even remotely justifies this ridiculous claim. 

    Pedroia has far and away been the more consistent player of the two and has maintained himself at the higher level. Ellsbury has had one great year sandwiched between too many injuries to determine if it was even legitimate...

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    Ellsbury in 2011 was better than Pedroia - not even close.

     

    Pedroia had a great season 5 years ago nad that season was not as good as ellsbury in 2011. 

     

    Last year Pedroia was not very good and boasted a lousy attitude as well.  Ellsbury was hurt.  But there is no team in MLB that would take Pedroia over ellsbury.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    It is kind of counter productive to debate whether Pedroia or Ellsbury is better. The Sox are better when both are playing well. They are not competing against each other. If you have to decide , I would say that Pedroia has had the better career. However , to say that he was nearly as good as Ellsbury in 2011  is just not true , and kind of smacks of favoritism.  We would all be better served to go by results and leave our own agendas out of these discussions.  It is very obvious that there is often a glaring lack of objectivity around here. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    In 2011, Pedroia  hit .307 / .387 / .474 with 21HRs.  Fagraphs valued him at 7.9WAR

     

    In 2011, Ellsbury hit  .321 / .376 / .552 with 32HRs.  Fangraphs valued him at 9.4WAR.

     

    Fangraphs uses favortism?

     

    Also, saying in 012 Pedroia was not very good summarizes it a boit too quickly.  He hit .290 / .347 / .449 with 15HRs.  These are almost always good numbers from a second baseman.  They are more remarkable when they are the WORST your second baseman has ever produced.

     

    They are also numbers Ellsbury has topped one time in his career... 

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from baddad. Show baddad's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    the sox can sign him unless stupid fans tell henry the clown its ok not to sign him......with all the moneysaved from our allegedly trade/salary dump of course we can sign him....wake up people....demand quality .....and you just mite get it

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    WAR is a rather complicated stat. I don't really have the desire to try and figure it out. Most of the  popular new metrics are actually just based on different ways of computing the old , standard stats. I am not not totally against the modern methods , but batting average , on base percentage , home runs , rbis and runs scored will give you a pretty accurate picture of a batter's performance. Wins , losses , ERA and strikeouts will give you a pretty accurate picture of who the best pitchers are. Putouts , assists , errors and fielding percentage will give you a pretty good picture of defensive ability.  Most of the new metrics are just a way of combining the stats that we already have available.  In the end , the best method is to know the game ,watch the games, be impartial and open minded and then form your opinions about player value. Even then , you will be wrong sometimes. But better to do that than cite dubious stats like WAR. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why Do People Want to Keep Ellsbury?

    This is not even close to what AZ wants, but keep convincing yourself it is, then bash Ben for not making your fantasy trade come true (see your Kemp dream).

    They may take Bradley, Bogaerts, Doubront, Aceves, and one of  de la Rosa/Owens, but maybe not.

    In fact, it's more than close to what AZ wants. You are such dimwit you can't think beyond AZ and Boston. You keep reading that nonsense about "they want a 3B and MLB SP" and you then slobber over yourself in your captious drive-by to beat your chest and try and boost your self esteem.

    It's not "they may take", you idiot! It's the quality of the pool they use to get what they need from another team in addition to the Red Sox! For years, you keep repeating this "they may take" nonsense!

    Unlike you, I know how to read and understand other people's positions, even when they change from day to day and are as silly as a clown. You used to think AZ wanted Ells. After weeks of taking you to school, you switched to involving a 3rd team. You are so brilliant. Nobody else would ever think of that.

    Now, you pretend Holland is going to be the piece AZ wants/needs to give up Upton along with a "pool" of guys you have called worthless all year. You self-contradictions are a marvel to read. "Ellsbury's a bum", but LA will give us Kemp for him if we throw in a batch of prospect bums with him...blah, blah, blah...

    The Red Sox need to keep Bradley and send Ellsbury and his draft compensation.

    Just because Bradley is from your neck of the woods doesn't make him better than Bogaerts.

    Ellsbury one year + draft compensation > Bradley, Jr (You idiot!)  (DBAcks can do better than Bradley Jr. with that, without "they might take" since they don't have to keep, you idiot!) (Not a prospect and has coattail draft compensaton for the other stooge Notin)

    This floors me. You contradictions are contradicting your contradictions.

    Brentz (or Bogearts if needed) (Top 5)

    De La Rosa or Webster  (Top 5 for the other idiot stooge, Notin)

    Anyone else from the farm but Barnes and Bradley, Jr (Top 6, as if top 5 means something more than top 6 for the other stooge Notin)

    Stop repeating your offer. You act like the only reason anyone would disagree with your suggested offer is that we don't understand it. 

    We know the players and "pools" you want to trade. You've repeated it often enough for even you to not mangle your own history.

    This is more value than Doubrant and Aceves and Bradley (your favorite bashing target and "I don't think they'll offer Aceves arbitration")

    I'll save this for further schooling. Aceves will be signed before arb like every other quality player has been for years with the Sox. If Az doesn't want Aceves, give em Taz or your buddy A Miller.

    The DBacks can easily get a MLB ready starting 3B, SS and a 2nd tier SP with that pool, assuming that media rumor is true, which it usually isn't.

    More drivel and doubletalk.

    And Notin, you were so captiously catatonic that you forgot to note that Bogearts is in the pool of need be.

    Folks, these two stooges have propsed 2M to Wakefield for 2012 and "I think the Red Sox make a play for Hamilton".

    You must enjoy lying. I never said I wanted Hamilton. If you had learned how to read, you'd clearly know this. I said that the wasted spending we have made thus far would have been better spent on Hamilton, but I clearly stated that was not my top priority, 2nd priority, or even 3rd. I just said it was better than SV, Gomes, and Dempster. 

    You don't need to lie about other peoples positions to try and distract from your own silly suggestions. Your repeated mentioning of Wake is proof that you must distract to convince yourself you finally got one right.

    Notin, you stupid idiot, the Red Sox never made any play for Haimlton. You said they would, despite the obvious that the Red Sox weren't going to spend over 100 million on another LH OF anytime soon, particularly an old guy with a substance abuse history and an injury history and the Red Sox with far superior value options on the LH OF front.

    Name calling is so becomming of a grand lawyer like yourself. 

    Silly clown.

     

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