Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind of evidence. No one's limited personal experience proves or disproves that society as a whole is bigoted or not.

     




    SMH.  really?

     

    how many years and how many experiences would make evidence "not weak" or (god forbid) "strong"???

    not sure if society turns a blind eye because it doesnt involve them personally /their family /their children or if people are really this ignorant to what is going on in
    America. 

    And i would NOT specifically label the deep south as the only source of (whatever word you would like to call it) - i live in NJ and work NE of Philly and get "hassled" on the regular. 

    The movie "ride-a-long" got me thinking of an interesting twist on that concept...that anyone that doesnt believe profiling exists should spend 1 week riding shotgun with a black man driving a bmw/audi/merc/lex/porsche....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, now I'll say a little something ... cuz us northen Americans, especially open minded and clearly foreward thinking caucasians ...

    I moved to Florida in 1971, was in 10th grade and attended a school system that was legally required to desegregate ... the year before  got there.  Man, was there a lot of interacial fighting.  While I lived in ivory white New Hampshire, we shook our heads at our southern bretheren being so bigotted. 

    So, while in a new environ where half the population was African-American, I strove to work for peace among the fighting sides.  I was raised that way.  God loved us, red and yellow, black or white ...

    But a little while after moving to Florida, the school system in Boston was mandated to be desegregated ... and our "high standard northen citizens" caused riots that made southern riots to almost flinch in the violence displayed. 

    I was never so disappointed in a REGION as in that moment.  I grew up in southern New Hampshire and we New Englanders thought more of ourselves than our prejudiced southern American kin.  How could we, who had been so haughty and self-righteous now act so hate filled ....

    South ... the prejudice isn't just there ....  so how about not acting so self-righteous about a region.... it is in the person.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind of evidence. No one's limited personal experience proves or disproves that society as a whole is bigoted or not.

     




    SMH.  really?

     

    how many years and how many experiences would make evidence "not weak" or (god forbid) "strong"???

    not sure if society turns a blind eye because it doesnt involve them personally /their family /their children or if people are really this ignorant to what is going on in
    America. 

    And i would NOT specifically label the deep south as the only source of (whatever word you would like to call it) - i live in NJ and work NE of Philly and get "hassled" on the regular. 

    The movie "ride-a-long" got me thinking of an interesting twist on that concept...that anyone that doesnt believe profiling exists should spend 1 week riding shotgun with a black man driving a bmw/audi/merc/lex/porsche....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, now I'll say a little something ... cuz us northen Americans, especially open minded and clearly foreward thinking caucasians ...

    I moved to Florida in 1971, was in 10th grade and attended a school system that was legally required to desegregate ... the year before  got there.  Man, was there a lot of interacial fighting.  While I lived in ivory white New Hampshire, we shook our heads at our southern bretheren being so bigotted. 

    So, while in a new environ where half the population was African-American, I strove to work for peace among the fighting sides.  I was raised that way.  God loved us, red and yellow, black or white ...

    But a little while after moving to Florida, the school system in Boston was mandated to be desegregated ... and our "high standard northen citizens" caused riots that made southern riots to almost flinch in the violence displayed. 

    I was never so disappointed in a REGION as in that moment.  I grew up in southern New Hampshire and we New Englanders thought more of ourselves than our prejudiced southern American kin.  How could we, who had been so haughty and self-righteous now act so hate filled ....

    South ... the prejudice isn't just there ....  so how about not acting so self-righteous about a region.... it is in the person.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Yaz.  you replied to my post so am not sure if the above statement was directed at me.  but your sentinment is exactly part of what i was trying to convey.  racism/prejudice isn't a "regional" thing....

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind of evidence. No one's limited personal experience proves or disproves that society as a whole is bigoted or not.

     




    SMH.  really?

     

    how many years and how many experiences would make evidence "not weak" or (god forbid) "strong"???

    not sure if society turns a blind eye because it doesnt involve them personally /their family /their children or if people are really this ignorant to what is going on in
    America. 

    And i would NOT specifically label the deep south as the only source of (whatever word you would like to call it) - i live in NJ and work NE of Philly and get "hassled" on the regular. 

    The movie "ride-a-long" got me thinking of an interesting twist on that concept...that anyone that doesnt believe profiling exists should spend 1 week riding shotgun with a black man driving a bmw/audi/merc/lex/porsche....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, now I'll say a little something ... cuz us northen Americans, especially open minded and clearly foreward thinking caucasians ...

    I moved to Florida in 1971, was in 10th grade and attended a school system that was legally required to desegregate ... the year before  got there.  Man, was there a lot of interacial fighting.  While I lived in ivory white New Hampshire, we shook our heads at our southern bretheren being so bigotted. 

    So, while in a new environ where half the population was African-American, I strove to work for peace among the fighting sides.  I was raised that way.  God loved us, red and yellow, black or white ...

    But a little while after moving to Florida, the school system in Boston was mandated to be desegregated ... and our "high standard northen citizens" caused riots that made southern riots to almost flinch in the violence displayed. 

    I was never so disappointed in a REGION as in that moment.  I grew up in southern New Hampshire and we New Englanders thought more of ourselves than our prejudiced southern American kin.  How could we, who had been so haughty and self-righteous now act so hate filled ....

    South ... the prejudice isn't just there ....  so how about not acting so self-righteous about a region.... it is in the person.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Excellent point Yaz.  Allow me to go further:  Prejudice is in theindividual person, but it is inspired in each individual by the institutions of our society.  Capitalism thrives and depends on the negative association of the Other.  If we see all people as brothers and sisters, we might actually be called to action against the oppression inherent in the system.  The imposed impediments to egalitarian thought exist in all corners.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Moon seems to be willing to make some concessions.  Is he coming at it from a decidedly left of center position?  Sure.

    ...but one of my very best and longtime friends is an ultraconservative!

    (No joke)

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought that was one of the beauties of the USA ... we can be from different belief structures, political leanings, long time residents or newly arrived in areas and all sorts of other possibilities and still be friends. 

    Exactly, and my ultra conservative friend has many liberal friends as well.

    Not all ultra left or right wingers are closed-minded and against diversity.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind of evidence. No one's limited personal experience proves or disproves that society as a whole is bigoted or not.

     




    SMH.  really?

     

    how many years and how many experiences would make evidence "not weak" or (god forbid) "strong"???

    not sure if society turns a blind eye because it doesnt involve them personally /their family /their children or if people are really this ignorant to what is going on in
    America. 

    And i would NOT specifically label the deep south as the only source of (whatever word you would like to call it) - i live in NJ and work NE of Philly and get "hassled" on the regular. 

    The movie "ride-a-long" got me thinking of an interesting twist on that concept...that anyone that doesnt believe profiling exists should spend 1 week riding shotgun with a black man driving a bmw/audi/merc/lex/porsche....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, now I'll say a little something ... cuz us northen Americans, especially open minded and clearly foreward thinking caucasians ...

    I moved to Florida in 1971, was in 10th grade and attended a school system that was legally required to desegregate ... the year before  got there.  Man, was there a lot of interacial fighting.  While I lived in ivory white New Hampshire, we shook our heads at our southern bretheren being so bigotted. 

    So, while in a new environ where half the population was African-American, I strove to work for peace among the fighting sides.  I was raised that way.  God loved us, red and yellow, black or white ...

    But a little while after moving to Florida, the school system in Boston was mandated to be desegregated ... and our "high standard northen citizens" caused riots that made southern riots to almost flinch in the violence displayed. 

    I was never so disappointed in a REGION as in that moment.  I grew up in southern New Hampshire and we New Englanders thought more of ourselves than our prejudiced southern American kin.  How could we, who had been so haughty and self-righteous now act so hate filled ....

    South ... the prejudice isn't just there ....  so how about not acting so self-righteous about a region.... it is in the person.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Yaz.  you replied to my post so am not sure if the above statement was directed at me.  but your sentinment is exactly part of what i was trying to convey.  racism/prejudice isn't a "regional" thing....

    [/QUOTE]

    Understood.

    Then we're cool.

     

    :o)

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:

     

    Anecdotal evidence is the weakest kind of evidence. No one's limited personal experience proves or disproves that society as a whole is bigoted or not.

     




    SMH.  really?

     

    how many years and how many experiences would make evidence "not weak" or (god forbid) "strong"???

    not sure if society turns a blind eye because it doesnt involve them personally /their family /their children or if people are really this ignorant to what is going on in
    America. 

    And i would NOT specifically label the deep south as the only source of (whatever word you would like to call it) - i live in NJ and work NE of Philly and get "hassled" on the regular. 

    The movie "ride-a-long" got me thinking of an interesting twist on that concept...that anyone that doesnt believe profiling exists should spend 1 week riding shotgun with a black man driving a bmw/audi/merc/lex/porsche....

     



    OK, now I'll say a little something ... cuz us northen Americans, especially open minded and clearly foreward thinking caucasians ...

     

    I moved to Florida in 1971, was in 10th grade and attended a school system that was legally required to desegregate ... the year before  got there.  Man, was there a lot of interacial fighting.  While I lived in ivory white New Hampshire, we shook our heads at our southern bretheren being so bigotted. 

    So, while in a new environ where half the population was African-American, I strove to work for peace among the fighting sides.  I was raised that way.  God loved us, red and yellow, black or white ...

    But a little while after moving to Florida, the school system in Boston was mandated to be desegregated ... and our "high standard northen citizens" caused riots that made southern riots to almost flinch in the violence displayed. 

    I was never so disappointed in a REGION as in that moment.  I grew up in southern New Hampshire and we New Englanders thought more of ourselves than our prejudiced southern American kin.  How could we, who had been so haughty and self-righteous now act so hate filled ....

    South ... the prejudice isn't just there ....  so how about not acting so self-righteous about a region.... it is in the person.

     

     



    Excellent point Yaz.  Allow me to go further:  Prejudice is in theindividual person, but it is inspired in each individual by the institutions of our society.  Capitalism thrives and depends on the negative association of the Other.  If we see all people as brothers and sisters, we might actually be called to action against the oppression inherent in the system.  The imposed impediments to egalitarian thought exist in all corners.

    [/QUOTE]


    True - the best institutions develop routines that at their best are to help them work well so that all are able to receive the best from the institution - both those who are poroviding a service and those who receive that service.  Unfortunately, people lose track of the purpose of that institution and the routines become the thing ... often at the expense of the people involved.

    Gosh that was twisting the tongue a bit.

    There is a line  I read somewhere that sort of is a high expectation

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon seems to be willing to make some concessions.  Is he coming at it from a decidedly left of center position?  Sure.

    ...but one of my very best and longtime friends is an ultraconservative!

    (No joke)

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought that was one of the beauties of the USA ... we can be from different belief structures, political leanings, long time residents or newly arrived in areas and all sorts of other possibilities and still be friends. 

    Exactly, and my ultra conservative friend has many liberal friends as well.

    Not all ultra left or right wingers are closed-minded and against diversity.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hehe ...   I coined a line for where I am in life ....

       I am moderately liberal with occasional extremely conservative tendencies ...

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon seems to be willing to make some concessions.  Is he coming at it from a decidedly left of center position?  Sure.

    ...but one of my very best and longtime friends is an ultraconservative!

    (No joke)

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought that was one of the beauties of the USA ... we can be from different belief structures, political leanings, long time residents or newly arrived in areas and all sorts of other possibilities and still be friends. 

    Exactly, and my ultra conservative friend has many liberal friends as well.

    Not all ultra left or right wingers are closed-minded and against diversity.

    [/QUOTE]


    Amen brutha Moon!! Views, ideas, beliefs should be allowed to be heard and judged solely on their individual merits, not by the unintelligent and corrupt requirement that the author "must be one of us....not them". Great men and women are being held in horrid prisons in China, Thailand, Russia, Iran,etc. simply because they dared to hold a view different than the corrupt officials who rule them. This board is a microcosm of the world at large. Defend free speach hear and you defend it everywhere. Attempt to squash here what you don't agree with or like, and you are no different than the despots torturing brave souls around the world. Learn that true intellects seek out opposing views with robust curiosity, confident in their owns views but open to changing them if the evidence compels a switch. Be brave dear Red Sox Nation members residing here on this board! Opposing views aren't a threat to you.....childish insistance on uniformity is what will limit your growth in life.

     

    P.S.

             I love David Ortiz! He is the the lifeblood of our team and the greatest hero of our current era. PERIOD.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    Thanks Teak.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thanks Teak.

    [/QUOTE]


    Anytime mate.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    Is David Ortiz the most decorated Red Sox playoff performer in their history?  YES.

    Does David Ortiz whine and complain every time he has 1 year left on his contract?  YES.

    Did David Ortiz earn the (over) $110,000,000 that he has made in his Red Sox career?  YES.

    Have the Red Sox showed David Ortiz with 'love' and 'respect' during his 11 years? YES.

    Can David Ortiz ask to be extended after hitting .688 in the World Series and would I do the same?  YES.

    Does it seem petty for the 'face of the franchise' to complain about his contract three months after his team won the World Series?  Especially considering the Red Sox had the best team chemistry in a decade and possibly the best in their history? YES.

     

    I could go on.  The fact that Ortiz is 38, but seems that he has found the fountain of youth.  That his 10 most similar comps all failed to perform after age 39 (and most much earlier). That he will make $15 MM in 2014, < $2 MM more than Ryan Dempster (who might be a bullpen arm).  That he seemed to be angling for a multi-year extension in the interview, presumably at over $15 MM when he will be 39 in the first year of the extension.

     

    I hope that Ortiz's contract issue (and his discontent) doesn't cause problems in the Sox clubhouse. But if he is insisting on anything more than a tack on year at the same $$ (or slightly more), then I think that the Sox have to pass. 

     

    I guess that we will just have to see how this plays out!



    David has a habit of putting his foot in his mouth when discussing contract status but until he shows signs of long term injury and/or significant decline he is simply our best every day hitter with power.  He should already be destined for the HOF if baseball chooses to consider a DH so I say we continue to make him happy so none of our competitors have the privledge of signing him.

    Lester will be another tough call for our FO.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    If you wish please just cut and paste your comment from this old thread about David Ortiz into the new thread about David Ortiz.

    No one will notice.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you wish please just cut and paste your comment from this old thread about David Ortiz into the new thread about David Ortiz.

    No one will notice.

    [/QUOTE]

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Why does every conversation about David Ortiz have to be so venomous (on both sides)?

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you wish please just cut and paste your comment from this old thread about David Ortiz into the new thread about David Ortiz.

    No one will notice.

    [/QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Ha.

     

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