Yankees Expect a Bidding War over Elite WAR Ratings for 2012 FA Tim Wakefield

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Wakefield is amazing and so is that pitch he throws.  You can't help thinking that if a couple of hitters tee off on him that it's over for him that game, like the second inning tonight.  But after giving up 3 there he goes 5 more innings and only gives up 2 more.   
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Dougie would be proud, naked in a taxi, but proud.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Hf, he probably is as good a starter I've ever seen in terms of turning a potential disaster into a calming, sharp performance. He doesn't cave in. So many starters cave in. He doesn't. He battles, and it's something you can see in how he handles himself. Not the knuckleball, his demeanor. The only reason it seems he's giving up more bomb hits is that he ball comes off the bat like a cannon and you visually see it cuz the player is generating the power. That's due to the pitch coming at 60 MPH, and that's why it seems like a batting practice pitch. Kevin Milwood was essentially released because he couldn't get his fastball past 87. Wakefield is a professional pitcher who has completely excelled his game at an age where most guys are in their 10th year of retirement.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Hf, he probably is as good a starter I've ever seen in terms of turning a potential disaster into a calming, sharp performance. He doesn't cave in. So many starters cave in. He doesn't. He battles, and it's something you can see in how he handles himself. Not the knuckleball, his demeanor. The only reason it seems he's giving up more bomb hits is that he ball comes off the bat like a cannon and you visually see it cuz the player is generating the power. That's due to the pitch coming at 60 MPH, and that's why it seems like a batting practice pitch. Kevin Milwood was essentially released because he couldn't get his fastball past 87. Wakefield is a professional pitcher who has completely excelled his game at an age where most guys are in their 10th year of retirement.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Great point about Millwood and the 87 fastball packing his bags while Wakefield keeps going.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Wakefield is amazing and so is that pitch he throws.  You can't help thinking that if a couple of hitters tee off on him that it's over for him that game, like the second inning tonight.  But after giving up 3 there he goes 5 more innings and only gives up 2 more.   
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    2 runs were unearned.

    He let up 3 ERs in 7 IP (No BBs and 8 hits)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    21 IP, 16 hits...I think that speaks volumes of his effectiveness.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    So that's 3 straight Quality Starts for Wakefield.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    I'm waiting for...I know, I know. I have to harness....Lackey to do that....(sorry, John, I know you've thrown 3 out of the last 5 well).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    "Being blinded by one stat (ERA) is not an excuse".

    The double-standard continues...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]So that's 3 straight Quality Starts for Wakefield.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    ...and 4 out of 5 starts with 3 or less ERs.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]21 IP, 16 hits...I think that speaks volumes of his effectiveness.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    ...and only 4 BBs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    The PB was a wild pitch. All 5 earned were earned. Standard homer launch and wild pitch and 5 runs. Wakefield is a sorry excuse for a double standard.Ortiz should get Wakefield's salary for the last 3 years!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Call the passed ball a wild pitch all you want, thats simply a lie... and Salty dropped an out at home as well...

    So you mean we need to abandon the 2-3 million we spend on a #6 starter who, when he starts, has an ERA in the mid 4's, the team has a .700 winning % and he throws a quality start 65% of the time... that guy

    hahahaha
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]The PB was a wild pitch. All 5 earned were earned. Standard homer launch and wild pitch and 5 runs. Wakefield is a sorry excuse for a double standard.Ortiz should get Wakefield's salary for the last 3 years!
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    LOL......

    Your worst sin??????     BORING!!!!!!!   Change the record.............

    All ANYBODY hears anymore is BLAH BLAH  BLAH........
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Softy's take on the Sox problems and biggest needs:

    1) Cut our 6th starter who has led the team to an 11-5 record.  Yeah, a team's 6th starter is often the cause of their demise when the team goes 11-5.

    2) Trade our .380+ OBP leadoff guy so we can put Crawford and his .319 career leadoff OBP in his place. Yeah, Jacoby is our weakness: trade him and "sell high".

    3) Cut the best back-up catcher in MLB today. The catcher who has won better than 62% of all the games he has caught this year...OTHER THAN BECKETT!

    3 of this team's biggest strengths (when compared to other teams) are
    CF/Leadoff
    Back-up cathcer (tandem catcher, if you prefer)
    6th Starter

    Silly clown just can not see the the truth if it hit him in the head.

    These are the three areas softy has relentlessly ranted about, some for years.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    2011:Wake 3 ER or less:     (healthy) 10 of 16 starts.
    2011: Lackey 3 ER or less:  (healthy)  7 of 12 starts.

    2010: Wake 3 ER or less:     (healthy) 10 of 18 starts.
    2010: Lackey 3 ER or less:   (healthy) 12 of 21 starts.

    Totals: Wake: 3 ER or less   (healthy) 20 of 34 starts: 58.8%
    Totals: Lackey: 3 ER or less (healthy) 19 of 33 starts: 57.5%

    Team win-loss:
    Wake 2011: (healthy)  11-5
    Lackey 2011 (healthy)  8-4

    Wake 2010: (healthy) 6-13
    Lackey 2010 (healthy) 16-17

    Team win/loss totals:
    Wake: 17-18.
    Lackey: 24-21.

    "It's all about team"...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Wake wasn't anymore healthy in 2010 as Lackey was in May this year. Wake had just had back surgery. He wasn't supposed to be ready to pitch until May or June in 2010.

    Wake is the 6th starter. His expectations are lower.

    Lackey is a 3/4 starter. His expectations are higher.

    I have more faith in Lackey this October than Wake, even though Wake has a better 3 ER or less percent over the last 2 years.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Wake wasn't anymore healthy in 2010 as Lackey was in May this year. Wake had just had back surgery. He wasn't supposed to be ready to pitch until May or June in 2010. Wake is the 6th starter. His expectations are lower. Lackey is a 3/4 starter. His expectations are higher. I have more faith in Lackey this October than Wake, even though Wake has a better 3 ER or less percent over the last 2 years.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Prove it.
    The April/May numbers with Lackey this year vastly differ from his time since returning from the DL.
    Wake's pct. of giving up 3 ER or less last year are close to this year.
    Wake was never on the D.L. His record was due to poor BP choices by Tito.
    That and the constant roller-coaster ride to the pen and back. Lackey lost many games last year due to the BP.

    Lackey's expectations of being a #3/4 starter is a matter of perception, not performance.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    if buchholz doesn't come back we need someone to be our #3 starter in the postseason and simply string together a bunch of 6 inning 3 run games or we'd be in trouble.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]if buchholz doesn't come back we need someone to be our #3 starter in the postseason and simply string together a bunch of 6 inning 3 run games or we'd be in trouble.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    That's why Bedard is here.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Prove it

    Having back surgery is proof enough

    Look at Wake's WHIP. GS with 3 or less ERs, and ERA in 2008 and up to July of 2009: they blow 2010's numbers away.

    The April/May numbers with Lackey this year vastly differ from his time since returning from the DL

    The sample size is small. Lackey's healthy 2010 season did not meet any levels of pre-2010, except maybe QSs
    ...
    Wake's pct. of giving up 3 ER or less last year are close to this year.

    If you call 63% to to 56% then OK, but Wake also has 2 games this year with more than 3 ERs that were not legitimate runs. I can't believe you are trying to argue that Wake is pitching as well now as last year, just to make some point about Lackey's underperformance.
    .
    Wake was never on the D.L

    Sox players on the DL may not always be hurt.
    Players not on the DL can still be pitching hurt.

    His record was due to poor BP choices by Tito.
    That and the constant roller-coaster ride to the pen and back. Lackey lost many games last year due to the BP. 

    Lackey's expectations of being a #3/4 starter is a matter of perception, not performance

    No, Lackey was ahead of Wake to start the year. He was not brought in here to be a #5 or 6 starter. You must be the only person in the world who thinks Theo signed Lackey to be the 5 starter. And, yes performance can change the slot status of a pitcher. If Wake performed just a little worse, he'd be back to #6. Lackey is now the #3 or 4 guy, depending on Bedard's and his next few starts. Wake could throw 3 straight 0 ER games, and still would not start game 3 or 4 of the playoffs.



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    In Response to Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield:
    [QUOTE]Prove it Having back surgery is proof enough Look at Wake's WHIP. GS with 3 or less ERs, and ERA in 2008 and up to July of 2009: they blow 2010's numbers away. The April/May numbers with Lackey this year  vastly differ  from his time since returning from the DL The sample size is small. Lackey's healthy 2010 season did not meet any levels of pre-2010, except maybe QSs .. . Wake's pct. of giving up 3 ER or less last year are close to this year. If you call 63% to to 56% then OK, but Wake also has 2 games this year with more than 3 ERs that were not legitimate runs. I can't believe you are trying to argue that Wake is pitching as well now as last year, just to make some point about Lackey's underperformance. . Wake was never on the D.L Sox players on the DL may not always be hurt. Players not on the DL can still be pitching hurt. His record was due to poor BP choices by Tito. That and the constant roller-coaster ride to the pen and back. Lackey lost many games last year due to the BP.  Lackey's expectations of being a #3/4 starter is a matter of  perception , not performance No, Lackey was ahead of Wake to start the year. He was not brought in here to be a #5 or 6 starter. You must be the only person in the world who thinks Theo signed Lackey to be the 5 starter. And, yes performance can change the slot status of a pitcher. If Wake performed just a little worse, he'd be back to #6. Lackey is now the #3 or 4 guy, depending on Bedard's and his next few starts. Wake could throw 3 straight 0 ER games, and still would not start game 3 or 4 of the playoffs.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    We're not talking about 2008/2009.
    We are discussing 2010/2011. Wake's ERA/WHIP from last year to this aren't vastly different. At least, not like they were when he was pitching hurt after the 2009 AS game through the end of the season.

    If he hadn't been shuffled back and forth last year and poorly deployed, I'm betting his 2010 numbers would equal his current ones, minus W/L record.

    He was limping and clearly in pain in the latter half of 2009. He talked about it often. I've not seen or heard him say one word about being in pain in 2010 or 2011. You are only assuming.

    You are also assuming Theo's expectations about Lackey. How the hell do you know what he thinks? What if it was Henry's decision and Theo fought it but lost?
    SLOT numbers are for slot players. It's about performance, not who's projected where. Was Josh projected to have a 5+ ERA last year?
    Was Buch projected to sit out the 2011 PO's?


    UR perception of Lackey's under-performance is based on:
    1) Him pitching hurt in April/May. He was DL'ed. That's why he had the cort. shots in his elbow.
    2) Your misconception of the kind of pitcher he is. He's the same pitcher he was in CA once adjustments are made. Just as AGONE is from his Petco numbers translating to Fenway. 

    His WHIP since then is in line with his 2010 numbers, which are in line with his CA numbers once adjusted. His ERA is skewed by one outing. Otherwise, it's similar to 2010.

      "Being blinded by one stat (ERA) is not an excuse"
                                                                 
    Moonslav59
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from KUL00. Show KUL00's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    Isn't he on a 4 Million 1 Year Renewable contract? Why wouldn't they resign him? He is cost effective, reliable, & eats up innings. Remember he wasn't even supposed to start, but was forced into duty by Dice turning into a china doll yet again. 

    Knuckle Ballers are totally hit or miss. When he is on, he is on, but when he is off it looks like batting practice. Plus there are very few other pitchers like him....

    He'll pitch until he is close to 50. Look at the Niekro brothers...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    has an ERA in the mid 4's, the team has a .700 winning %

    The team has a higher winning % when miller starts, you dim wit.

    Wakefield's ERA is over 5 since summer 2009. To claim this guy is better than the entire landscape of affordable young pitchers is utterly good ole boy logic.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Red Sox will not resign Wakefield

    softylaw love how you set the thread trap and they all come pouring in with their hatchets out, nicely done.
     

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