1. You have chosen to ignore posts from cberbes. Show cberbes's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Outfielders with speed and a solid glove are a dime a dozen, there are quite a few FAs out there right now for the taking. Jacoby seems to be a good, for-average hitter...so that is his real upside.

    Santana.....I don't need to explain how rare HOF caliber LH starters are.

    So the bottom line is this, do you trade a pretty good outfielder for a #1, LH, starting pitcher? Yes, no questions asked.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_1663367. Show user_1663367's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    My sentiments exactly, Chris. I really like Jacoby, but to pass up Santana to keep him in a Sox uniform would be foolish.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joemanc. Show joemanc's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    I 'm with ya buddy. dont trade ellsbury!

    here is my argument why:

    1. if in fact the yankees get him and give up hughes, have they really upgraded significantly? if as the baseball pronosticators predict, hughes is a cant miss pitcher. They will gain santana and lose hughes and probably melky cabrara. also will be tied up with 20 million a year in payroll, which might prevent them from signing another front line player.

    2. how many wins will santana get us over lester? lester could win 14 and santana probably 20. i would be willing to bet that ellsbury by himself with his speed and hitting ability will win six games. he is a better hitter than crisp and will make up in his offense for the few more wins santana will give us. also the payroll we spend with lester and ellsbury will allow us to keep our payroll under more control and allow more money to sign another top free agent if needed.

    3. we will also get to keep a few more top minor leaguers for the future or for trade bait down the road.

    4. ellsbury will replace damon as a fan cult hero. especially the young fans. the fans opinions need not be discounted.

    5. he will be a dynamite lead off hitter. someone we have not had since damon, and will probably be better.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from brarrell. Show brarrell's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    This deal gets done-and the Sox have 2 LEFTIES in their rotation----how often have they had this for real? I like Ellsbury A LOT- but pitching wins series, and Series, and hopefully other moves can be made with an extra pitcher or two available.

    Besides, I have a Coco t-shirt my Mom gave me last year--it'd be a shame to not be able to wear it around without cringing, "Oh, he's the guy NOT on the team anymore. Ma! Why didn't ya get me the Lowell shirt!?"

    Anyway-we've all got opinions-but all my non-RSN friends say it would be crazy NOT to give up whomever for Santana- a real No-brainer.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from joemanc. Show joemanc's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    we won without santana this year. and if i recall right ellsbury played a key roll in some wins in the playoffs. its not just pitchers that win games, its hitting and speed ala dave roberts.

    would love to have santana but not at the expense of losing ellsbury and money it would take.

    i like bedard a lot. how about trying to get him without giving up ellsbury.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from joemanc. Show joemanc's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    The Red Sox [team stats] have offered two separate packages: one headlined by outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and the other by left-hander Jon Lester [stats]. The Twins are believed to be leaning toward Ellsbury, according to the report.

    isn't it interesting that minnesota is willing to give up your pride and joy santana, forego lester and drools for ellsbury.

    what are they seeing that you are not?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    For Bedard, the O's will demand the same deal that the Twins want for Santana.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Pitching beat the Indians. Ellsbury played a relatively minor role in the Indian wins.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Well said !!! Ellsbury had an exciting regular season especially when he first came up. But as good as Ellsbury was he is not a Ted Williams, or Joe DiMaggio or a Mickey Mantle as some posters have suggested. He is a fine ballplayer but he is not worth a front line starter straight up which is why the Twins, Orioles or any other ballclub wishing to trade a frontline starter of the quality of either Bedard or Santana will demand more than Ellsbury for such pitchers. And Ellsbury was not the difference between winning or losing any playoff game as I recall. Nor do I recall Ellsbury making the kind of game saving catch that we saw Crisp make several times in Center. He is good he is very good but not as good defensively as Crisp at this point in his career.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Yeah....gimme Aaron Rowand...cuz he plays hard. That's dumb. As if Ellsbury doesn't play hard. Personally I wouldn't trade Ellsbury. His offense and athleticism will put a ton of pressure on opposing teams. He will wreak havoc getting on base with Papi and Manny to think about. You can't quantify the value he will provide at the top of the lineup and if you watched the World Series you know what I'm talking about. Plus the fact that he performed that well on the BIG stage bodes well too.

    Santana is a great pitcher, but as someone pointed out he's an old 28 and also has pitched in the AL for a while now. Even Pedro was becoming less effective the 10th or 15th time around. Injuries may start to pop up at this stage in his career (he may have even missed time this past year) and knowing you're going to have to pay TOP dollar for him I think is kind of a scary proposition. I think Theo likes keeping some flexibility in the payroll and therefore still be able to deal at the deadline or next season. Don't get me wrong I would do a deal for him, but I wouldn't include Ellsbury but I don't see Minn. doing the deal for Lester and co. without Ellsbury. And with that said I say offer Minny the Lester, Coco, Lowrie, Masterson package and hold firm. That's getting help in places they need it. Remember they HAVE to move him or risk getting nothing for him. Though they could wait till the deadline, but I think they know they'll get more for him now. In Theo I trust.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    28 is not old for a frontline starter. A frontline starter really doesn't hit his prime until 30 plus. Pitching isn't about just throwing a baseball. It's about experience. Clemens, Petitte, Schilling, Johnson, Ryan, Spahn , Smoltz, Glavine martinez, etc. etc etc. how did they perform after age 28 ? Superbly thaat's how.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from elktonnick. Show elktonnick's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    As we learned in 06 you can never have too much pitching. and you are right Ellsbury isn't a rookie yet. Want to guess how many young "can't "miss phenoms have flamed out after a flashy start one time through the league. Too many to count.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from emcd3. Show emcd3's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Off topic, but this is hilarious...A Mitchell Report Draft! haha..

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/11/the-mitchell-report-draft/

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobwal. Show bobwal's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    I want Ellsbury. I know how good the Sox would be with Santana, but so what? It isn't fun when you trade half of your minor league system for one pitcher, and then have to pay him $25 million a year. It will cause problems with Beckett I'm sure, because he is the ace of the staff, and will probably become the #2 starter. We are slowly becoming the Boston Yankees.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    "THEO!! Remember who pays your salary!"

    GM's and managers who listen to fans will soon become fans...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox4jack. Show redsox4jack's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    GM's and managers who listen to fans will soon become fans... a.k.a. unemployed


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Actually, I just quoted someone who made that up.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHUCK821. Show CHUCK821's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    if they trade Ellsbury, I'm finished with the Sox........I have no problem with Santana, but they just won the World Series, they have a nice mix of veterans and youth, and I'm not going to sit around and listen to people next Summer complaining that we don't have any offense or a solid leadoff hitter- we talk about that every year, so, lets not for the next 10 years and hold onto the kid- the Twins are in a bind- HOLD ONTO ELLSBURY, THEO!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from gas. Show gas's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Ellsbury is the most exciting ball player I have seen in a Sox uniform since Ted W

    Who says he cannot hit with power ?

    he will be the best centerfielder in the game for a decade and score 120 runs a season

    George Silva

    Boca Raton Fl

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjr. Show mjr's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Amen my brother!! Santana pitches once every 5 days, Ellsbury would likely play 130 games in left or center. Who has a chance to make more of an impact?

    Although intangible, the front office also has to consider the marketing aspects of each player and the clubhouse chemistry. Ellsbury has been embraced by the fans and certainly seems to fit in with the other players.

    Theo - resist the temptation.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    People, please don't let your heart behest what is logically correct. Oh, Ellsbury is fast, he is quick too. He got everyone a Taco, which is even better. He looked real for FOR TWO MONTHS. I'm sure alot of women think he's cute too. Pitching, Pitching and even more Pitching wins world series. I had the number one pick in baseball and I took Santana above all those great hitter picks, and won the league. Once you see Santana throw a no-hitter in a Red Sox uniform, you will soon forget Ellsbury. Oh, by the way Santana had 3(THREE) no-no going into the 7th inning last year. If the Sox get Santana for 08, better find a friend to take you to the World Series.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    For some odd reason I have this feeling that Bedard, Haren or Kazmir would be a better fit for the Sox. Didn't Bedard strike out more hitters? And Haren win as many games? Didn't Kazmir always pitch the Sox tough? Isn't there anyone else out there that feels that Santana may have slipped a bit and that 150 million for 5 years might be too much? I'd predict Lester to win 12-13 games next year. How many more would Santana win? As for post-season, sure it's all about pitching but Lester didn't exactly stink it up against the Rockies. Someone posted that Ellsbury is no Dimaggio. On the contrary he is very much like Dom Dimaggio, who played for the Red Sox years ago, and was an excellent center fielder. Like most of you guys I have watched every Sox game for years and I can't remember a player who brings this much talent and excitement to the game.

    And one final thing that bugs me: the last time we made a trade to keep a player away from the Yankees we wound up with Eric Gagne. If the Yankees beat us out for Santana so be it. I'm happy to watch Lester grow as a pitcher and I'll be elated to watch Jacoby leading off for years to come.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Survey on Santana deal / Ellsbury

    Thanks Soxdogs67 for your approval. Pitching is not the sexy thing that the general Sox fan wants. However, with Santana in the rotation we can have Shilling as the pitching coach for the Sox next year. (lol) The Sox have great scouting and believe me, in one/two years another HOF player (ELLSBURY) will be brought into the organizaion...

     

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