1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Softlaw's drivel is pathetic as always. Lugo DIDN'T post career high RBI in 07, a FACT. Softy was WRONG. What more do you have to say? Creating a gray area in a black and white statement is what people do when they are WRONG. RBI's is not even the stat that matters when discussing if Lugo was a bust anyhow.

    Why can't I point out the HUGE statistical diff. between Ellsbury's stats the 5 month we knew he was healthy compared to the 2 months he was hurt? His manager continued to say he was struggling to get healthy from and later get back into a groove b/c of a wrist injury in June/July. This is a FACT. Then come August tito said he was healthy and corrected his swing.

    WRONG as always Softy...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    BTW the important part of Lugo's stats you both over look is runs scored. That is where he made his game in TB. I'd be happy with 160+ hits, 80+ Runs scored, 50 BBs and 25+SBs this year. It's not his power that is the important thing it is getting on base and creating runs, that is what he has not done here. His best years in TB were not in RBI's but runs scored, hits, walks and SB. You both are missing Lugo's value.

    Good stuff Jim,

    I'd mentioned his runs scored in previous threads. You are right. It was his job to get on base on and score and he failed. I had been mentioning the "TB Lugo" a lot lately as a .280/.340/10 HR guy... his runs scored are a more important stat than the HR's but I was just providing the stats that proved I was correct in saying that so many times.

    Turns out Lugo was even BETTER in Tampa than i was giving him credit for, and therefore my supporting the fact that he was a bust here, who played much worse than expectations, is justified.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo


    "Notice how this tool doesn't note the Dodger 06 debacle, pretending that 06 is fully weighted in Tampa." softlaw2

    soft his stats in TB were all from playing SS 73 games. In LA he played 48 games only 8 at SS and the rest at 2nd, 3rd and the OF. So yes LA was bad but moving from ALE to NLW and not playing consistently at any position will cause such problems. So yes throw LA out the window.

    Right again Jim,

    Why softlaw insists on being the only person here to say that 2 months in LA, post trade, as a bench player/second baseman should matter over his 22 previous months in TB is beyond me.

    Then he had the nerve to say we could use Lugo's 03 and 04 seasons as a career barometer but not 06 b/c 06 was a "partial" season. SO WAS 2003. he was traded over from Houston. I only looked at his stats from every Tampa Bay SS AL East game to make my "TB Julio Lugo" comments.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlFromOrlando. Show AlFromOrlando's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    I agree about the Tampa Lugo. I watched him often, and I considered him at the time the most underrated player in the league at his position. There are shortcomings with Lugo, but every shortstop has them--even Hanley Ramirez. Yes, Lugo will make the error you don't expect, but he has always been excellent going to his right (not so much to his left, especially when the glove has to cross his body) and he has a strong arm. The problem with the latter is he will not always plant that back foot before he throws, hence the throwing errors. But he is a far more athletic shortstop than Lowrie, and despite the nice errorless run Lowrie had last season, the ML sample on him is a still a small one, and Lowrie's range is nowhere near Lugo's.

    At the plate, what has been missing from Lugo is the pop he had off the bat while in Tampa. At the time he was in the higher tier of shortstops in terms of power (remember the number of times he either hit or cleared the Monster when he visited prior to his acquisition), but this has fallen off the past few seasons. Perhaps his beefing up and the elimination of health concerns may return that part of his game. He is a speedy baserunner and is actually one of the fastest in the league from first to third, but has some difficulty getting out of the batter's box after his swing, and loses a step there--otherwise his number of inflield hits would astronomical. I'm surprised Magadan doesn't work with Lugo on this--but then, I'm not at all a fan of Magadan's ability to turn hitters around in any regard anyway.

    All that said, I like this competition. While I would still love to see a mid-season deal for Hanley Ramirez to bulletproof the lineup, the odds are that either Lugo OR Lowrie, recovered from his wrist injury, or BOTH, will have better seasons this year, and along with any sort of rebound by Varitek, will close that hole at the bottom of the lineup.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mainerguy. Show mainerguy's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Rameakap,

    If you have such a problem with Softlaw or Law or anybody else, why is it that you just keep calling them out? If you have something to say in regards to your thoughts or feelings about the Sox, then post it, make a strong point, and then back it up. You started a thread and made some decent points, but then you had to go ahead and challenge Softlaw to point out the holes in your statements, which he did quite effectively I might add. The way to get those guys to leave you alone would be to ignore them completely. Though, it seems you'd actually prefer that they continue to challenge and prove you wrong, which would explain why you have difficulty making a point without trying to get them involved. Maybe I am the only one who sees this. If so, carry on, and ignore me.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    "It's not his power that is the important thing it is getting on base and creating runs, that is what he has not done here."

    Solid point, JimfromFlorida, but I think that while getting on base is important, I think power is also important.

    I dont think that HR total is the right stat to determine power though because Im not talking about HR power. Im talking about driving the gaps power (ie Pedroia power, Mueller power). Pedroia doesnt have 25-30 HR power, but he has enough power to drive the gaps, keep the outfielders honest...Without this, he is NOT CLOSE to an MVP calibur 2B , which he is (of course).

    THe doubles power goes a log way. That being said, if Lowrie wants to draw Bill Mueller comparisons, he is GOING TO HAVE TO BULK UP!! There is no way around that. Bill Mueller had doubles power, and Lowrie's slugging pct unfortunately shows that his base hits are usually singles.

    Another thing people are missing is if Lugo can increase his power (again speaking of doubles power, he doesnt need to hit HR's), he is the PERFECT 9th man in the lineup. He has enough speed to get inside pitchers heads. Imagine that, having to deal with the top of our lineup and worry about Lugo on the basepath? He also opens up double steal/hit and run opportunities when you go Lugo then Ells. Unfortunately, Lowrie cannot do this.

    My conclusion: Lugo has bulked up, if he starts showing additional power to the gaps AND he's getting on base more consistently, I think hes a better choice over Lowrie, because a) Lowrie NEEDS more gap power and b) Lowrie doesnt have the speed that makes Lugo so fit for the #9 spot in the lineup.

    Our lineup is going to need to manufacture some runs this season and rely less on the 3 run homer (Tito's words not mine). Having speed and a guy capable of hitting doubles in the 9 spot will help a LOT with this. If I was a NL manager, I wouldnt bat the pitcher 9th, because personally, I feel the 9th spot in the lineup is of underrated importance, and my point is with improved play, Lugo is perfect for this spot.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    [Quote]He's tearing the cover off the ball in BP down here Kap and he's looking bigger if that's possible, lets see how he does against live pitching come tomorrow. I think he's got alot to prove and will.[/Quote]

    Busch - thats great to hear. Lets hope. I really believe (assuming he actually is improved a little) that the club is way better off with Lugo at SS and Lowrie as a fantastic utility guy.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Mainerguy,

    This thread was both a response to Softlaw's previous LIE in another thread (that he ruined w/ an inability to properly cut and paste) AND my thoughts + facts about the TB Lugo.
    Softlaw's response to my argument/statement was not effective AT ALL. He tried to say Lugo was not a .280/.340/10 HR guy in Tampa Bay... he is wrong. He tried to say we should have expected bad stats b/c of Lugo's time in LA... he is wrong. He tried to say Lugo performed close to his career numbers here and was not that bad.. he is wrong. He tried to say expectations for Lugo should have been low and his failure to not produce TB #'s shouldn't be viewed as a bust... he is wrong.

    Other than pointing out that Lugo had solid RBI and stolen base numbers in '07 and a solid OBP in '08 (numbers that don't change Lugo's status as a bust in boston) I fail to see any correct statements from Softy or an effective argument at all....

    just a bunch of "patently false" lies from him on the subject

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Softlaw when you find one other person who didn't pay close enough attention to can't understand that your argument was full of holes and lies and can't hold water that doesn't make you right. some guy with 18 career posts comes in and is als wrong... wow. There are far more people who have laughed at you and called you clueless on this topic for months. You were wrong and you are a joke.

    Then he blows hard about Lugo being this leadoff guy, even though his career OBP says he wasn't

    keep proving your status as the fool with stuff like this. He was signed to leadoff, it was announced he would be in that role, he was handed that role, his OBP IN TAMPA BAY was good enough for that role and HE FAILED AT THAT ROLE. Blame Theo if you think we should have had someone else. The fact is we should have gotten .335-.350 OBP and goit the historically awful .294. Who gets the blame there? who was the bust? Wake up Softy.


    he simply cuts and pastes partial samples and tries to mislead the reader into thinking Lugo was this great player in Tampa and has a shocking collapse in Boston.

    I posted the entire sample of Lugo's TB avg/OBP and HR #'s. You were the ignorant fool who tried to disgard a huge sample size and focus on 03 and 04 only and throw out 05 and 06. My grasp of the stats is far superior to yours and my conclusions on the type of player Lugo was in TB compared to Boston 100% accurate.

    You were wrong... again.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Softy just b/c you keep saying the same old false things doesn't make them right.

    Your opinions have been torn apart with the truth. The weak stats you bring in your defense blown up by more better ones.

    But I guess you can just say things like this:

    It matters not that this board had 20 to 1 typing the same drivel, I was right and you were all wrong!!!!

    and tell us how you really feel.

    You can't see when are wrong. You're just one of the miserable obnoxious people that can't see the truth if it bit them in face... so when you post your lies I'll just keep right on posting the truth, even tho I know you'll never wake up and see the reality
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChrisHouse. Show ChrisHouse's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Any comments on tonight's ST game? Same old drivel here for 4 months. Same old arguments and impatience. Much good commentary tonight on NESN and MLB Network, it is a shame that you missed it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Yup, Softlaw has lied and been proven wrong for 4 months by multiple people... nothing else has changed.

    Lugo underachived greatly, is a bust to this point, come nowhere near the most important stas from TB like avg/OBP and runs scored...

    Softlaw is a joke, a liar, and 100% wrong
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    With all due respect, the guys OPS+ was 30 points below what he himself had been averaging the previous 5 season's and in 2007 and 20 some odd below in 2008 and put up his two worst career OPS+ which as we know is a combination of stats.

    If you don't want to take into account OPS look at his BA 237, OBP 294 and SLG 349.

    Career 271, 335 and 390, these career numbers include 07/08. Even at that he is 15% off in BA, 12% off in OBP and 15% (These are estimates) off slugging.

    In 2008 he was at his career avg basically in BA and OBP but his .330 slugging % is alarming.

    His OPS+ numbers show how poorly he performed vs his own standards. Additionally he is a average to slightly below avg SS. So his value diminish's greatly if he is not slightly above average as a hitter. If your below in both area's that is when a team needs to make a change.

    All in all his RBI's were good, but don't over inflate it, he had 400 chances to drive in those 73 RBI and a averge MLB player in same situation drives in 75, so it was not spectacular, he just had alot of chances in a deep line up.

    If he simple provides his career averages I have no issue with him, but if he puts up another 75 ish OPS+ number he needs to really be looked at as a bad signing and replaced mid season, he can still turn it around and for some reason I think he will have a good year.

    They need some production from him or the SS in general.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    [Quote]With all due respect, the guys OPS+ was 30 points below what he himself had been averaging the previous 5 season's and in 2007 and 20 some odd below in 2008 and put up his two worst career OPS+ which as we know is a combination of stats.

    If you don't want to take into account OPS look at his BA 237, OBP 294 and SLG 349.

    Career 271, 335 and 390, these career numbers include 07/08. Even at that he is 15% off in BA, 12% off in OBP and 15% (These are estimates) off slugging.

    In 2008 he was at his career avg basically in BA and OBP but his .330 slugging % is alarming.

    His OPS+ numbers show how poorly he performed vs his own standards. Additionally he is a average to slightly below avg SS. So his value diminish's greatly if he is not slightly above average as a hitter. If your below in both area's that is when a team needs to make a change.

    All in all his RBI's were good, but don't over inflate it, he had 400 chances to drive in those 73 RBI and a averge MLB player in same situation drives in 75, so it was not spectacular, he just had alot of chances in a deep line up.

    If he simple provides his career averages I have no issue with him, but if he puts up another 75 ish OPS+ number he needs to really be looked at as a bad signing and replaced mid season, he can still turn it around and for some reason I think he will have a good year.

    They need some production from him or the SS in general.[/Quote] GM tph, i think you guys have a good SS tandem, from the little i've seen Lowrie looks like a very good two-way player, IRT Lugo, i think at some point he's going to need to come to grips with the possibility that he'll be the BU or won't play as much as he'd like,the guy's not horrible, IMO he's still pretty capable defensively, he just needs to accept the role he's handed plus, at this point it may Lowrie's job to lose...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Ha

    Softlaw loses the same argument for the umpteenth time, gets flustered and posts the same out of context correct at the time Tex statement of mine from two months ago... yawn

    Good stats tph, Lugo clearly has played worse than his career and been a bust up till now, hope he turns it around...

    Bad deal, Puhols is yesterday's news and Molina is good for catchers but no good enough to justify Bucholz, Bowden, Kottaras & MDC. Youk is a more complete player than Pujhols, how does this make us a better by taking our our pitching prospects for Molina? I mean, the Cards make that deal in a heartbeat.

    haha Softlaw the ignorant

    Jake would look better in an Indians hat, but this is not the next Jim Thorp. I hope the Indians are as high on him as this board. Who was his hitting coach at Pawtucket, teaching him the art of bunting the ball?

    ugh Softlaw the racist
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    No hate Softy, just the facts and the truth. I want Lugo to do good, too bad he has not, and I look at that objectively, unlike you, who spitefully hate on Ellsbury and Lowrie despite having barely seen them play and ignoring the facts.

    softlaw/s/e/2 you have lost both arguments, Lugo/Lowrie and Crisp/ellsbury many times and it is not just me who has put you in your place...

    Let the season start already

    My arguments have been as follows:

    - Lowrie outplayed Lugo in 2008 in essential same # of AB's

    - Ellsbury's complete 2008 season was better than Crisp's complete 2007 season

    - Ellsbury showed more talent/outplayed Crips which was why ells was the starter in 08 and Crisp the 4th OFer, and why Crisp was traded

    - Lugo has been a bust to this point in is Sox career based on his previous career #'s (esp. Tampa Bay) and expectations (which were to leadoff w/ decent avg/OBP and have #'s like he did in TB)

    I was 100% correct in all those statements. The facts proved it. There might be a small area for debate and you tried to debate, used mostly opinion, the less important facts, and LOST every argument on each of those 4 true statements by me

    The other 2 things I have said are as follows:

    - Ellsbury has shown himself to be a solid starter for many years who I feel projects to having Damon-like career #'s

    - Lowrie projects to be a Bill mueller type above average player who starts for a few years and has a few years as a very good utility player

    You disagreed with both statements, 2008 should have shown you to be wrong in saying ells will be a journeyman 4th OFer, not start in boston for more than 1-2 years and that Lowrie will flame out completely

    but the jury is still out on that

    bring on the 2009 season!

    You were wrong on 4 things, no more debate possible. Many proved this. He was wrong

    There are 2 other things he could be wrong about, but have yet to be proven

    let the games begin!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    "- Ellsbury has shown himself to be a solid starter for many years who I feel projects to having Damon-like career #'s"

    You base this on this small sample? Where he was beaten out for the starting job in the playoffs by a player who has had some of the worst statistical seasons on Redsox record.

    I am not saying he is bad or that he won't improve, but you can not say he has "shown himself to be a solid starter for many years"... not yet anyway.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BLRob. Show BLRob's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Bottom Line: Lugo's got a lot to prove this year and I think he will have a solid year. What does "solid: mean?

    .275, 10 HR, 60 RBI, 75 R, 25 SB - that's my gut talking, nothing more.

    It's good to see him healthy and a little stronger, but I'd take an increase in doubles and seeing-eye-singles over a few more homers... we need Lugo to get on base so that the top of the order can drive him in... not hit homers.

    Lets hope his focus is on avoiding the inning ending DP he was notorious for in the past... and ofcourse staying healthy.

    ps. I hate to say it, but I think we're going to see alot of Lowrie at 3B this season...

    The Bottom Line blog
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    BLRob, let's hope that's what he gives us, I'd love that
     

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